So Vash makes it three for yes, and count me as a yes now as well. I like these ideas. OK, so ideas about what sites to get this article to...

Slashdot
GameSpot
GameSpy
IGN
TheGIA
Joystiq
1up
Chrono Resurrection (get them to link us like Symphonic has done, and maybe convince them to put up the article)
CTRP (same)
Square? (I know they wouldn't do anything with it and they don't even have a place to put the article, but it might be a good way to build a bit of hype with THEM, and see if they say anything to us about it.)

Also... Wayne Kramer, author of the Chrono Trigger Novel Project, called me today... He'd like to combine our efforts in the petitions -- just as we'd discussed here before -- and after we brainstormed for awhile on how to do that, we came up with creating a combined site, perhaps something like ChronoPetition.com, that would host both petitions separately, involving heavy linkage between the two.

I now have 10 sigs in my hands (I received one from Sacramento... I think it was Apoc's), Wayne said he has 30. So he's experienced the same thing as we have. However, he has about 130 signed up in his little "secure" area for signing, so he thinks others are just taking their time with gathering signatures.

PROS to combining sites:
-- Benefit of their audience seeing our material as well.
-- Ability to move away from Flash a bit, so that we don't have issues any time we want to update material or link to our forum.

CONS to combining sites:
-- The combined site would likely also feature a combined forum, which in the end means that Vizzed probably wouldn't be our forum base anymore, unless we convinced Dave and the CTNP crew that bringing the novel project's audience here is the best idea.

I may have missed other cons, but anyway, that should get us thinking. Input?

I do not like the idea of combining sites. I have been against it since the beginning. The reason being is that our fate would be much more closely linked with theirs. I have a feeling that many more fans will be in favor of a remake of Chrono Trigger than a novel being produced. If those fans see our petitions on the same site we may lose credibility from them, as our projects will seem connected. I think if we just mention each other on our own sites we will be working together enough.

Oh, and add Joystiq to your list. And maybe 1up.com. I'm going to try to contact them to see if they'll accept it.

Hello there.

Wow, is that article a modified version of mine, a modified version of Apoc's, or something completely original?

In any case, I like it. Somehow it brought to mind the image of a wildly enthusiastic teenage guy in a TV commercial. =P (Though you might wanna explain what "CTRPG" means, or simply write out "Chrono Trigger Remake Petition Group".)

I don't know if some of the gaming sites you guys mentioned will like the article, though...it might be fine for someplace like Slashdot, but the overall feel of the article lacks the type of clinical professionalism inherent to gaming news sites. In those cases, it might be better to use either my version of the article or Apoc's version. (Though I gotta admit, I think Prop's version is better than mine -- it has enthusiasm, and that's something we're gonna need if we hope to get signatures.)

As for IGN, try emailing Matt Casamassina of cube.ign.com fame and telling him about us. He's usually open to ideas like ours and is generally willing to help, even if it's with something as small as mentioning us in his "mailbox" column. I doubt he'd use the actual article itself, since IGN usually only posts articles written by members of their staff, but if you tell Matt about us, he might write an article of his own and post it.

Heck, try emailing the editors of the other IGN channels, too. Perhaps the editors of the PS2 or PS3 channels, since Square/Enix games have traditionally appeared on Sony platforms, or the editors of the XBox360 and Revolution channels, since we're trying to get a Next-Gen version of CT made...

BTW, Jake CC'ed me a copy of his reply email to "Wayne", who is apparently the head honcho of the CTNP. Have you guys seen it?

The entire staff of both projects were CC'd, so they should have seen it.

Joystiq and 1up.com added.

If they want a more professional article I can write a concise, professional article. If they want to write their own we should just show them the information we have about our project and we'll have to leave it up to them about how to present it.

I'd like to get things straightened out with the CT Novel Petition before we submit that article... The article contains a specific URL, directing to our Flash site. And by the way, at the mention of the forums, the article should also have a URL for our forums. But both of these URLs may change if we end up combining sites, which I still think is a very good idea.

So, we should come to a final decision on the site deal before we submit the article anywhere, so that the article can have the right URLs when we send it out.

Prop makes a point and one we can't take lightly. For now I'm going to think over whether I think we should combind. Also have we had any of them sign up here?

Combine? While it is definitely worthwhile to work together in regards to our aspirations, I don't think it wise to completely merge the two projects. While Chrono Trigger getting remade is definitely a possibility, I have a hard time believing S-E would actually release a novel using a game's storyline. I just... don't think it would work. Afterall, some people might be turned off from signing since they might believe the petition's request would be impossible to achieve. This is specifically why the two petitions shouldn't merge.

In other words, if we combine forces just to promote each other... I think that is ok. I wouldn't go much farther than that though. Of course... I am definitely able to be swayed, if you can give me good reason to believe it will actually help.

*edit*
Just got another email from Wayne. I've been getting the growing impression that a meeting between our two groups on this subject is a necessary step to take. Thus I have recommended we have one. We've been debating over this for a little while, and furthermore... we haven't even HEARD the thoughts of the other team. The only one we've heard from so far is Wayne. I want to hold a meeting so all of our questions can be heard, all can be answered, and we can make a decision on just what specifically we will be doing... all in one single bound. Kind of like hitting three birds with a pebble.

I'm sure the other team has some concerns as well. I think we need to address that as well. I also think we need to address just how strongly "merged" we will be. We obviously have varying opinions on this; thus I feel it needs to be discussed.

Apoc, from your last post, you talked about the petitions merging. We're NOT wanting to merge the petitions...just the sites.

To be frank, a meeting with both teams talking about what they want will be too inefficient to be worth it. It's taking us long enough to determine what we want by ourselves, and we're all familiar with each other and know how each person communicates. Why don't we just figure out what we want, let them figure out what they want, and can have ambassadors (probably Jake for us, or whomever we decide will be able to communicate our desires best) meet and present what we would want out of a conjoined effort.

Personally I think if we make a site titled chronopetitions.com, or whatever name we decide on, and have that site contain a little information on each project, but contain links to our present, separate sites, that would be enough.

I don't know what to think anymore. Apoc, Jake and Prop all present reasonable arguments. I'm seeing both sides of the issue and it's causing me to be unable to reach a decision.

If we DO decide to meet and chat, though, I'll have a problem. I don't have AIM...nor do I have MSN Instant Messenger, for that matter.

I do, however, use a free java-based chatroom that's always open 24/7. No downloading necessary, unless you have an outdated version of Java.

http://sunstorm.dyndns.org/

The problem with meeting now is that we aren't sure what we want, and they probably aren't either. This is evident by the fact that we still haven’t gotten everyone presenting their ideas about joining efforts at this site. We will not be able to communicate efficiently with all of us chatting on AIM. I mean, even with a simple issue such as whether or not we should meet, we cannot communicate efficiently. Look at the emails that have just been going out. Apoc (no offense man) just replied to an email sent out by Wayne by repeating basically the same exact thing that he did, but in different words. Jake responded without adding much information.

I'm not trying to attack you guys, but seriously, look at the emails we've been sending. There's a lot of repetition there. Now think about if we had what would be at least 2-3 times as many people talking online. Each person would want to get their say out, and would. The only problem is that a lot of us (almost all of us) aren't sure what we'd want with the conjoining of the efforts. Therefore, we'd have a lot of people presenting ideas they aren't sure they support and haven't thought enough about to back them competently in conversation.

I think it would be a good idea for the two teams to meet in a discussion group eventually, but not quite yet. And I don't think every member from each team should attend, probably only two from each.

Let me know what you think.

Honestly...? I think it's a little anal-retentive to be even discussing whether there should be a meeting. And Stoney........just download AIM. I don't have it either; I'm installing it right now. Or use AIM Express if you don't want the AOL Demon coming anywhere near you.

I'd be fine with meeting with just a couple reps from each project, but the fact that we're even having a discussion on whether or not to hold a meeting is a little unnerving to me. I chose to include all of y'all in this so that it wasn't possible for anyone to say "Jake just went off and made this huge decisions without giving us any input on it." So this is your chance for input... Wayne and I will continue and we'll figure out when this meeting will be held... If you want some input, IM me for an invite. (My AIM screenname is Jullinar 05.) Otherwise, I'll just assume you didn't want to be a part of the discussion.

Read my posts again. I want there to be a meeting. I think I even said it in almost those exact words. But I want both teams to come up with a consenus on what we want first. We haven't done that. Let's do that, then decide when to meet. You want our input? Give us a chance to give it.

Had a talk with Jake the other day, one topic was in regards to the exact expectations of the merger. Thus a few things were filled out. Now that the whole scenario has been clearly explained, I accept the idea of a merger.

Here are the details:
- There will not, in any way, be a merger of petitions. They shall remain seperate.
- A new website, not quite as "advanced" as the current one, will be used as the "home" of both pages.
- Despite their being a new "home" for the petition, the current site will remain up for the moment. However, it will not act as the "home" of our petition anymore, and thus, will not recieve any updates (if there are any to make).
- The coders of this site shall be provided by Wayne.


The idea definitely brings some change to the current situation. I am little disappointed that this change would bring about the loss of the flash website (in essence, anyway). However, I can also admit that the Flash website has only brought us down due to the difficulty in updating it and adding links/images to it. Obviously, the idea could only bring MORE advertisement of our petition, because whoever visits the site to sign the Novel petition (or at least check it out), will also see our petition, and could potentially be another person to gather signatures for us. Furthermore, since the work of making the site will be mostly done by Wayne's coders... there won't be any additional strain on us in the process. It just seems like a win-win situation with this description. Is there something I'm missing?

Originally posted by Apocalypse

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Is there something I'm missing?

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Only Stoney's input. We shouldn't make a decision without his opinion.

Also, there was never going to be a merger of petitions.

Anyway, Jake, Mike and I talked yesterday (or the day before, I can't remember) about it, and we got a little more detailed. Yes, the most of the work will be done by them, but we still want some control over what the website looks like.

We agreed (I think) that we want this website to have a simple page as the main page, With just two buttons on it, each of which would bring the visitor to each petition's respective section. When the visitor clicked on our section, those two buttons would become less significant (probably just get smaller) and move to the top of the page or wherever, somewhere out of the way. The buttons to navigate across our page would come up here too, as would any artwork we may have. I think we said we wanted to keep it close to the design of the page we currently have, but I'm not sure. The point is that with this setup there would be one master page containing the two, the visitor would be able to access either section at any time, but we would be able to organize ours however we want and they would be able to organize theirs however they want.

I think we agreed on this... Jake was pretty out of it though, so he might have something different to say now. What do you guys think?

Oh, and there's the issue of the forums. How do you guys want them to be done? I like the forums here, but I'd be open to suggestions.

PS- That all having been said, I'm going to play devil's advocate and point out that once this process is complete we wont be able to publicize that we have our own website any longer. That's unfortunate, because at face value people take projects (especially internet based) more seriously when they have their own site. Not sure it'll make that much of a difference, but it's something to think about.

When you say I was out of it, you make it sound like I was drunk or something, LOL... I was just tired, plus I was IMing with a couple other people on and off as well...so I was a bit distracted.

Now that you explain it that way, I do understand what you mean about the butttons now. As far as your Devil's Advocate part, I don't think that'll make much of a difference.

I installed AIM on Saturday. I managed to chat with two people for a grand total of five minutes before I was abruptly disconnected from the network. AIM has not worked properly ever since. I'll probably have to devote an entire day towards figuring out what the hell is wrong with it, and possibly re-installing it if necessary.

I have a feeling of foreboding about this merger. I dunno, call it nervousness or whatever, but I just dislike the idea of deleting our lovely Flash website which Jake paid for. It seems like quite a waste. And as Apoc pointed out, we will no longer have our own website. Yes, it would be easier to update an HTML-based website, but couldn't we just add an HTML section to the existing website?

I need to be in the next meeting you guys are planning. When and where?

Now, if we DO go through with this merger, we'd better make sure it gets done right. I don't wanna find out that the presence of the other petition's site is actually lessening our credibility or something like that. So we'll need involvement in the development of the other petition's site, because when we merge, whatever they do will affect us. In return, they'll probably have to be involved in the development of our site just to make things fair.

What will the shared site's address be? Will it be hosted at Vizzed? And who is going to get the joyous task of going around telling everyone we've already mentioned the Petition to that we're at this NEW site now?

I'm not sure if a site change is even possible at this point unless we somehow provide a link between the flash site and the new one. People who are spreading the word about the Petition will be telling people to go to the Flash site; unless we place a link to the new site somewhere on the old site, people will be unaware that we've changed sites. Even worse, those that try to go to the old site after it has been deleted will be met with the dreaded Error 404 page and won't have any idea what to do.

A) Apoc didn't say that, at least not that I remember. I did.

B) They'll probably be hosting us, considering they're hosting themselves right now.

C) If we set up the sites as I described there would be no reason for the two to be at all worried about what the other is doing. As long as they aren't turning their supporters away from Chrono Trigger before they look at our site, what their site looks like or says wont really affect us. For the same reason, they wont really need to worry about what we're doing either.

D) How long with it take Name to erase everything on our current site and change it to one, professional looking link sending anyone who visits to our new site? If we can set that up for the same time the new site goes up, I don't think we have to worry about people getting confused.

E) Our meeting was spontaneous. We can probably wait until you have AIM figured out before we have our next one. Let us know.

F) Forums, anyone?

Here's another idea, Prop. You said that the shared site would have a front page with two links, one to the CTRPG site and another to the CTNP site. Couldn't we just take our link and have it redirect people to our Flash site? We wouldn't have to build a new site from scratch in that case.