JigSaw : Do you understand why the Pharisees were angry and want to kill Him when He claimed that He was the messiah? Because the Old testament demands that the Messiah had to be divine. So when He is claiming to be the messiah, He is claiming to be divine and is God in the flesh. (Psalm 110) Also, only God has the authority to forgive sin, and yet He does it many times in scripture. The HUMANS at that time know what He was claiming to be, that is why they arrested Him.

"Jesus is gods creation"

Ok that claim is clearly wrong. Because if you read the verse after what BigNATE listed (John 1:1) It wrote "He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." (John 1:2-3) Did you read it? It says that through HIM ALL THINGS WERE MADE. Jesus was part of the creating process. He CREATED everything.

I know this is your opinion, but if you study the Bible clearly, he really does make that claim. The people at that time knows that. That is the reason why John wrote the gospel of John in the first place: To show that Jesus is God. The prophesies all point to Jesus as the messiah, who has to be divine in the flesh. You are looking at a wrong perspective.

Going back to the C.S. Lewis quote, he said that comment because it is illogical to say that he is just a moral teacher.

"THIS IS WHY C.S. LEWIS MADE THIS COMMENT ABOUT JESUS, that you cannot just call Jesus a moral teacher. He made a claim, and with that claim, He is either "A LUNATIC, A LIAR, OR LORD.""

There is no right and there is no wrong unless you are following someone elses rules. I guess my opinion is wrong if your christian but with christianity aside lets try and look at it.

People misquote people all the time so that is the major problem here. People can read one quote and look at it in multiple ways. No one knows for certain the exact perspective of the originator of these quotes. So I think people should be more open to the meaning behind them rather then look at it one way and tell others that they are wrong.

Yes the quote exists but the meaning behind them can lead down more then 1 path.

"He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

It clearly says He (Jesus) was with God. It did not say God was Jesus from the very beginning. This is another example of why I believe he is not God. If Jesus was with him in the beginning then that is impossible considering there are previous civilizations that date back way before Jesus even existed meaning that Jesus was NOT here from the beginning, only the beginning of Christianity or the beginning of Jesus's birth.

JigSaw : ...that is COMPLETELY ignoring verse 1:
"In the beginning was the Word [Jesus], and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD. If you are going to debate Christian matters in the Christian forum, then I suggest you read up on Christian beliefs and stop spouting nonsense .
Also, let's take a look at the Lewis quote:
Jesus was not a lunatic; even the people of His day knew that.
Jesus was clearly not a liar; He healed, forgave, and saved through God's name, any person could see that, whether they chose to believe or not.
So what does that leave? Jesus is LORD.

bigNATE : You dont have to be a complete prick about it and be so defensive. If I called your quotes nonsense I'm sure you would get pretty pissed to so knock it off.

"In the beginning was the Word [Jesus], and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD"

This is simply saying that Jesus had a word and the word was God again it never says Jesus is God. I don't have to know about the bible in order to know how to understand its perception.

But Jigsaw it is stated in the NT that Jesus is the word. I believe the verse was quoted.

JigSaw : We see in John 1 that John the Baptist was preparing the way for this "Word", this "Light":
"6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world" (John 1:6-9)

It is made very clear who this Light John is preaching about is when John says
"And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! " (John 1:36).

...and I admit I was too harsh towards you, I shouldn't have made that comment about you spouting nonsense... but please, in a thread about Biblical discussion, back your claims with scripture, not with some theory that scripture does not, for some reason, have actual meaning behind it. Whether you like it or not, the authors had an original intent behind each verse, and none of them are saying Jesus is not God.

JigSaw : That is true people can misquote people, which is why people need to go back and actually look into the context and know what the verse or the quote REALLY means, and look at the authorial intent.

What BigNATE said is true. If you also put John 1:1 into context with John 1:2-3. It is simple substitution property. (a = b, b = c, therefore a = c)

"If Jesus was with him in the beginning then that is impossible considering there are previous civilizations that date back way before Jesus even existed meaning that Jesus was NOT here from the beginning, only the beginning of Christianity or the beginning of Jesus's birth." See, this is all the MORE reason that He IS claiming that He is God. He said that "before Abraham was, I AM" He claimed that He existed before Abraham did, which you should know, is wayyy before New Testament times.

Also, Jesus is the beginning, that is why in Revelation that he is called "the Alpha and Omega (first and last letter of the Greek alphabet), the Beginning and the End." He is not simply with God in the beginning, he IS the Beginning and the End.

Both skeptics and believers, experts and commoners know what Jesus is claiming. All evidence in the Bible shows that Jesus is claiming to be God. You may not believe Him, but that is what He is claiming. You still did not respond to my pharisee argument, Psalm 110, and the people's thoughts at that time.