in most cases of OCD it is too strong to stop thats why its called obsessive compulsive disorder, they have to do it or it eats at them. and if what u say is true, does that mean being straight is a choice?

I think it is a choice. My reason is because I personaly have known people who have turned ''gay'' when they were straight before. So that's why I believe it is a choice

metal572 : Yes man. Everything anyone does in their life is completely their choice. Do you want to be gay or straight, do you want to steal something, do you want to try and get an education. Everything is your choice no matter what you're born into. You have the choice to do anything. That's all I'm saying.

chugchu : O.K. thanks for clearing up your beliefs, i misunderstood you at first, but now that i understand i apologize.

metal572 : "Ignorance like that is what makes people mad" And its ignorant blind statements like what you just made right there that annoy me. You want to believe that there are homosexuals out there who have love, but I guarantee you that there are no homosexuals with a basis of love instead of lust.

Hoochman : That's the ignorant claim that metal was referring to. You're just saying that. Do you have any proof, or are you just saying that because you're not willing to back down and you want the last word in? You can't just say things and expect people to accept them. This is a debate, not an argument.

"I guarantee you that there are no homosexuals with a basis of love instead of lust."

PROVE IT!

Well, regardless of whether or not homosexuals are based on love or lust, if it was love, then wouldn't that be more leaning towards being a choice anyway? Since lust is a lot more uncontrollable right?

You want me to prove it? Real love is a choice, lust is an almost uncontrollable little imbalance in your brain that attracts you to someone else. Exactly what proves my point. Gays admit to it not being their choice which means that it isn't love.

how is lust more of a choice than love?

Your argument assumes a lot that you can't actually prove.

I said that love is more of a choice than lust.

.... that doesn't prove anything. Just because YOU say it doesn't make it true...

[sigh]

You're taking me out of context. It isn't because I say so, that wasn't even what I was saying. I was responding to you're statement that I was saying lust is more of a choice when I was really saying love is more of a choice. Its not because I say its true, I just stated why its true.

now let me state why it ISN'T true.
1. like i said, someone i know that is was run out on by his partner and hasnt dated in 10 years (he is an older guy who lives next door) so if it was lust why would it hurt him that bad?
2.Gay people are like straight people, they are each different, so assuming there is an absolute definite way they all feel and act makes no sense.
3. Love is NOT a choice. People fall in love with bad people all the time, and they get hurt by it, does that mean they want to love them and get hurt? no it doesnt, it means they want to believe they have changed and will be good, you cant help who you fall in love with (i could give a specific example but i dont want to right now)

Hoochman : "I know a few, yes everybody has lust issues, and with the gays I know its all about lust. And after hearing accounts of former homosexuals it is pretty clear from what is said that it is only a compulsion, nothing more."
"You want to believe that there are homosexuals out there who have love, but I guarantee you that there are no homosexuals with a basis of love instead of lust."

:/ Really now? What kind of arguments are that? I know gay couples who are more in love than I've seen most straight couples. So you're admitting that you weren't born straight then?

geeogree : Obviously Hoochman knows all. Don't fight it, just accept it.

Zamiel : watch it with the smart ass comments. It only makes you look bad, and not me. It would seem than that this homosexual couple has less lust than some straight couples, that's all. They're arguments that define it good in answer to what my arguments are.

Hoochman : I can't help being a smart ass and I don't think it makes me look bad.

"It would seem than that this homosexual couple has less lust than some straight couples"
Yes, less lust and more love.

"They're arguments that define it good in answer to what my arguments are."
That sentence didn't make any sense.

I honestly believe that people are bi-sexual by nature, and molded in heterosexually through exposure to the environment we were raised in.

The reason I say this is when I went to University I took a History Class specifically on Ancient Greece, and there was an entire Chapter dedicated to bi-sexuality in Ancient Greece. I can't really go to deep into detail about the Chapter, but for example little boys and men with status were encouraged to have "relations" that didn't harm the boy. When the boy grew older, the man with status that they had the "relations" with would help them out in their careers and whatnot. It was a circle of life thing.

It wasn't an issue to them at the time however because that's the way it is, whereas if a man made a boy do that in this society he'd have his head impaled on a spike.

Basically what I'm saying is in today's society homosexuality isn't widely accepted, however if it were, people would be a lot more inclined to experiment with different genders without fear of any social backlash, therefore a larger percentage of people in society would be bi-sexual.

I liken that school of thought to say theivery. Say if theivery was legal and had no social repercussions, a lot more people would steal because the could get away with it. However there would still be a number of people who believe that it is wrong and would never partake in the act.

That may seem like an apple and oranges comparision, but I was simply using it as an example to help explain my point of view.

So do I think that homosexuality is a choice? I can't really give a definite yes or no answer. Choice to me implies that you decide with one specific answer, whereas I find that homosexuality is figured out after "x" number of experiences. I think people can choose if they're fed up with the opposite sex for whatever reason out of spite.

I'm going to end this post here, or else I'll have a 500 page essay trying to precisely explain my thoughts on this subject. I'll try to explain further if I get questioned directly.

"So do I think that homosexuality is a choice? I can't really give a definite yes or no answer. Choice to me implies that you decide with one specific answer, whereas I find that homosexuality is figured out after "x" number of experiences."

This pretty much exemplifies how I feel about it.

I'm tired of this lust vs love conversation. The idea that heterosexuals can love and homosexuals can't is ludicrous.

geeogree : And besides, the lust/love argument is basically irrelevant or off topic anyway.