To Jesus God says: “You are my Son, today I have become your Father,” and says of Jesus: “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son. And to the Son God says: “Your throne, O God , endures forever and ever (Hebrews 1:5 & 8 NLT). How can Jesus be both God and the Son of God? Well, the Father-Son relationship is not only because of the virgin birth of Jesus through the Holy Spirit, but also it is symbolic of the equality of the Father and Son.

Jesus asked ”Who do people say I am?” “Well,” they replied, “some say John the Baptist, some say Elijah, and others say you are one of the prophets.” Then Jesus asked, ”Who do you say I am?” Peter replied, “You are the Messiah” (Mark 8:27-29 NLT). Jesus said to a woman, ”I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die like everyone else, will live again. They are given eternal life for believing in me and will never perish. Do you believe this, Martha?” “Yes, Lord,” she told him. “I have always believed you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who has come into the world from God” (John 11:25-27 NLT).

Jesus asks this question today , ”Who do you say I am?” http://www.carm.org/jesus-two-natures

If Jesus was just a man then Christianity is a lie. He had to be both fully God and fully man in order for the punishment of our sins to be upon Him. If He was just a man then He died in vain.

* Well, if there are any objections, or concerns, or concurrence, you are free to your own opinion/ belief.

Jesus is the only literally begotten son of God. God was Jesus's father in the flesh. However that worked we don't know... but Jesus was half god, half human. He had all the power his Father had to command the earth, heal the sick etc, but he was still human and could die just like the rest of us.

Both of these were required for him to take on the sins of the entire world. No regular human could endure the suffering required.

In fact, I think it says somewhere in the Bible that only Jesus could lay down his life and take it up again. That would mean that he would remain alive to suffer for all the sins of the world until it was done... and then he would allow his life to end. Without the power to do that no human could have accomplished what Jesus did.

I would actually describe it as 100% God, 100% Man. Jesus never lose any of the qualities that God has, like holiness, omniscience, love, just, etc...but he also has the characteristics of Man, like human emotions, needs like hunger, thirst, etc, which is why He was able to die and fulfill the promise of redemption by dying for those that are perishing.

Jesus is fully God and fully man. When God took on flesh he did not empty himself of his deity. He has all of Gods power but he was still human so he had the same physical and mental weakness that men does. He came to establish the new covenant in his blood because the old covenant of animal blood did not work and it was not permanent like the new covenant so sacrifices had to be made regularly. So unfortunately old testament people could not ascend to heaven like we can.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth" John 1:1, 14.
I think that pretty much sums it up... Jesus is God wrapped in flesh, fully God, fully man, and retaining all qualities of both, save for Man's sinful nature.

If I work at Microsoft that does not make me Bill Gates. Jesus is just a disciple of God who was sent down to spread the word. If that were NOT the case then why would people contribute to the bible with quotes? Why would the bible have been passed down for ages to inform more people? The answer is simple, God chose to create a disciple to spread the word for him saving him time and effort which then created a ripple effect with others helping in the process. If that was not the case God would have to reappear when each human is born and speak to them personally explaining who he is but that is not the way he decided to go.

So I don't look at Jesus as God, I don't look at Jesus as half human half god, I look at him as any other Christian who was given great knowledge with a purpose to spread the word and sacrifice his body to make it happen.

JigSaw : See the problem about that, is you have no biblical basis on that. You are just saying it the way you want to see it. And you don't understand the core message of Christianity, which is the gospel. If Jesus is not God, then no one is forgiven for their sins. No one can be redeemed, because Jesus' sacrifice is to take on all the sins of this world.

Also something to think about. If Jesus really was not God, then this whole thing would die down pretty fast. Remember, that is the time of the Roman Empire, where polytheism is prominent. Even some Roman emperors claimed to be god. But as time go by, all of these fade and go away, but Christianity continues to grow and still exists, even though persecution of these beliefs continue. Almost as if it is a miracle...because it probably is.

I'll just copy this from the other thread.

Jesus is God Incarnate
• Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
• Matthew 1:23 [Speaking of Jesus]"Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, God with us).
• John 1:14 the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
• Zech. 12:10 [God says] I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.
• 1 Tim. 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
• Rev. 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

Jesus is Eternal
• Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.”
• Psalm 93:2 Your throne is established from of old; you are from everlasting.
• Isaiah 63:16 you, O Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.
• Micah 5:2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days.
• John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
• John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Jesus has Divine Names
The Good Shepherd
• Psalm 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
• Psalm 80:1 Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, you who lead Joseph like a flock!
You who are enthroned upon the cherubim, shine forth.
• Ezekiel 34:12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock when he is among his sheep that have been scattered, so will I seek out my sheep, and I will rescue them from all places where they have been scattered on a day of clouds and thick darkness.
• John 10:11-14 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,

Mighty God
• Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Lord and God
• Matthew 22:42-45 saying, "What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?" They said to him, "The son of David." He said to them, "How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying," 'The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet'? If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?"
• John 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"

Savior
• Isaiah 43:3 For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.
• Isaiah 43:11 I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.
• Isaiah 45:15 O God of Israel, the Savior.
• Isaiah 45:21 a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
• Hosea 13:4 But I am the LORD your God…and besides me there is no savior.
• Luke 1:47 [Mary, speaking of Jesus]my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
• Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
• Philip. 3:20 our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
• 2 Tim. 1:10 our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel
• 1 Tim. 4:10 we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
• 2 Peter 2:20 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

The Rock
• Deut. 32:4 "The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.
• Deut. 32:15 Jeshurun… forsook God who made him and scoffed at the Rock of his salvation.
• Deut. 32:18 …unmindful of the Rock that bore you… you forgot the God who gave you birth.
• Deut. 32:30-31 How could one have chased a thousand, and two have put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had given them up? For their rock is not as our Rock; our enemies are by themselves.
• 1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy like the Lord; there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God.
• Psalm 18:31 For who is God, but the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God?—
• Romans 9:33 Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.
• 1 Cor. 10:1-4 [Israel, in the desert] …drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
• 1 Peter 2:7-8 [Jesus]The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone…A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense

The Light
• Psalm 27:1 The Lord is my light and my salvation;whom shall I fear?
• Micah 7:8 the Lord will be a light to me.
• John 1:4-9 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
• John 8:12 Jesus said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

The First and the Last
• Isaiah 44:6 Thus says the LORD… "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
• Rev. 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
• Rev. 1:17 [Jesus said],"Fear not, I am the first and the last”
• Rev. 2:8 [These are the] words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.
• Rev. 21:6 [Jesus said] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.
• Rev. 22:13 [Jesus Said] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

Jesus Claimed Equality with God
• Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
• John 10:30 I and the Father are one."
• John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
• Philip. 2:6 [Jesus] though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
• John 5:16-18 "My Father is working until now, and I am working." …the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him… because he was calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
• John 5:21-23 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
• John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."
• John 8:28 "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.
• John 8:58-59 Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." So they picked up stones to throw at him
• John 10:30-33 “I and the Father are one.” Again Jews picked up stones again to stone him, because He claimed to be God

Jesus is Omnipresent
• Matthew 18:20 where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.
• Matthew 28:20 behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.
• John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except him who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Jesus is Omnipotent
Matthew 8:27 What sort of man is this, that even winds and sea obey him?
Matthew 28:18 All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Jesus is Omniscient
• Matthew 9:4 Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, "Why do you think evil in your hearts?
• (See Also: Matthew 12:25, Matthew 22:18, Mark 2:8 , Luke 5:22, Luke 6:8, Luke 9:46-48)
• John 1:48 Jesus knew Nathanael while he was under the fig tree
• John 2:24-25 He knew all people and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man.
• John 4:28-29 [Samaritan Woman] “Come; see a man who told me all that I ever did.”
• John 6:64 Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe,
• John 18:4 He knew all that would happen to him
• Acts 1:24 Lord, who know the hearts of all
• Col. 2:3 In [Jesus] are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Jesus is the Creator
• John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
• Col. 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
• Hebrews 1:3 He upholds the universe by the word of his power.

Jesus has Power over Nature
• Matthew 14:25 Walked on Water
• Luke 8:24 Rebuked the Wind

Jesus received Worship
Only God may be worshiped
• In Matthew 4:10 Jesus Himself said “You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve”
• Yet In Matthew 8:2; 9:18 and 15:25 He allows people to kneel before Him and call Him Lord

Jesus was Worshiped by the Disciples
• Matthew 28:9 [The disciples] came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.
Jesus was Worshiped by Others
• John 9:38 The man born Blind said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

Jesus is Worshiped by Angels
• Hebrews 1:6 Let all God's angels worship him.

Jesus forgives Sins
• Matthew 9:2 Jesus said, "Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven."
• Matthew 9:6 “…the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"
• Mark 2:5 "My son, your sins are forgiven."
• Mark 2:10 “The Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"
• Luke 5:20 Jesus said, "Man, your sins are forgiven you."
• Luke 5:24 “the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"
• Luke 7:47-50 Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven." Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this, who even forgives sins?"
• Acts 5:31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
• Col. 3:13 the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

Jesus has power over Life and Death
• John 10:17-18 I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."
• Rev. 1:18 [I am] the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

Just because my opinion is not biblical does not make it wrong. You posted a TONNNNNNN of quotes which goes in hand with my opinion of it all. Without these people Christianity would have died very fast. It's not because he was God that it still exists. Without people preaching Christianity day and night it would die. So you can thank all the followers for it, you can thank the bible for it.

If Jesus was God, there would be no need to spread his word in the form of mass media he can easily reveal himself in the sky whenever he wanted.

You or no one would know of his existence if it were not for the bible. What if the bible never existed? Then you probably would not believe in God or at least Jesus.

There are lots of things and methods of God that does not necessarily have to be used, but he does them anyway. If God revealed himself in the sky than there wouldn't be a need for faith and thus no true devotion, but there will come a day when God reveals himself. The media does not spread the word of God as the media is either secular or neutral in its views.

JigSaw : However, because your opinion is un-Biblical, it is non-Christian... and I believe the point of the thread is for a discussion based on scripture, not your own personal beliefs based on nothing. None of play4fun's verses in any way make your point... are you sure you're reading them right? No matter what you say, there is a right meaning to them, and it ought to be very clear with these verses.

bigNATE : I think his point is this:

Jesus is only considered to be God becase the early Biblical authors said he was.

While, I agree with this statement... his assumption that goes further that if these people weren't there then Jesus wouldn't be God. There is no basis for that statement.

Furthermore.... the assumption that if Jesus is God then he wouldn't need people to spread the truth about who Jesus was makes no sense. All it proves is that Jigsaw doesn't understand the Christian idea of why we're on the earth in the first place.

[edited for strange grammar in one spot ]

Another thing JigSaw is that Jesus using people instead of rvealing himself in the sky to show that he is God is another reason why he is God because it just shows that Jesus can still spread the message even if he isn't going about it the easy way such as simply showing himself in the sky.

If anyone has a chance, you can go to a website called wakeupproject.com . On that website you can go to videos and watch this series called "The Divine Book", which talks about Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, and talks about Jesus revolving around this question.

alex360 : unfortunately, that's what most people want. the easy way. they don't want to have to go look for God, they want him to just "appear". as for the topic that started this thread, if jesus was not God's son, then my would God say, "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased?" i don't believe that jesus and god are the same person, so to speak, because if they were, who was jesus praying to in the garden? and who ripped the curtain in the temple from bottom to top after jesus died? jesus died to cover our sins. if he was merly a disciple of God, and not of God, we are all in big trouble because our sins are not forgiven. the bible is a tool. our weapon against the evils of Lucifer. it's not to be used as an idol of worship, or intercession to God, that's Jesus' roll. we pray to God through him. jesus said," in this manner pray: Father,..." *looks for verse to no avail....* sorry if a rambled.

killakari27 : I'm not gonna say that Jesus was the Son of God, but I'm not gonna say that he isn't, but I do know that religion has infiltrated in the past. I do know that the religions of Judaism, and Christianity have been infiltrated in the past and the word of God has been changed by men of the past. There is another series on wakeupproject.com under the videos tab called "The Arrivals". This series contains hidden secrets and uncovers the truth about certain major things in the world, including religion. I really encourage people to watch this great series. Start from part 1 go down the list to the last episode.

oh! i am so sorry. i didn't mean for the rest of that to be directed towards you. just the people wanting it easy part. i will look at the wakeupproject site. thanks for the info!

killakari27 : Oh that's okay, and I do believe that God won't just make himself appear before the people, because God wants His people to have faith that he is real, without having seen Him, and just making himself appear would mess up what he wants. What He wants is to test us, to see which ones really serve Him, without having seen him. God wants to see which ones have that faith that he is real, and that's why he just can't make himself appear. I still encourage people to go to wakeupproject.com and watch under the videos tab, a series called "The Arrivals" and there is another series which I mentioned earlier called "The Divine Book" which will go over Jesus and the main question to this thread.

neither. he was just some carpenter dude back in the 0000's that could walk on water ^^

Chronabis : Your proof? According to C.S. Lewis, Jesus was either a lunatic, a liar, or Lord.
He surely wasn't a Lunatic, not even the people of His day thought so... He was just someone looking for attention to them.
He was no liar; His closest companions, who traveled everywhere He went, ate every meal with Him, and almost never left His side wouldn't give their lives for Him if He was lying. When you're that close, it couldn't be hidden. They would have given up the moment He died, had they not actually believed... and if He were lying.
What does that leave? Jesus is Lord.

my proof? my proof is the bible... it says he was a carpenter and that he walked on water... how could you argue with me there? lol