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03-28-24 11:06 AM

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Transgender?
Gender Dysphoria/Gender Identity Disorder.
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Transgender?

 

12-13-12 03:08 PM
Singelli is Offline
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Yeah, I was waiting on a reply from the second person and also overwhelmed since it's end of the term. I haven't forgotten though, don't worry.  I actually have a list of the threads and things which are going to take me some time, and I have it taped to my laptop at home.  Thanks though, and I appreciate it!  I'll either get to it this weekend or next weekend, but certainly no later than the next.
Yeah, I was waiting on a reply from the second person and also overwhelmed since it's end of the term. I haven't forgotten though, don't worry.  I actually have a list of the threads and things which are going to take me some time, and I have it taped to my laptop at home.  Thanks though, and I appreciate it!  I'll either get to it this weekend or next weekend, but certainly no later than the next.
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12-13-12 03:18 PM
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LOL @ All these posts. All I can say is, God doesn't make mistakes.
LOL @ All these posts. All I can say is, God doesn't make mistakes.
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12-13-12 03:26 PM
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DwarvenKnuckleBuster : He doesn't exist either.



Seriously why restrict so many things everyone else wants to do just because your imaginary friend said no?

That like saying a group of people want to have 1 free cookie from a free cookie bin, but they can't get their free cookie because the cookie Monster wants them instead. This is an IRL situation, not a sesame street situation, mind you, Nya~.
DwarvenKnuckleBuster : He doesn't exist either.



Seriously why restrict so many things everyone else wants to do just because your imaginary friend said no?

That like saying a group of people want to have 1 free cookie from a free cookie bin, but they can't get their free cookie because the cookie Monster wants them instead. This is an IRL situation, not a sesame street situation, mind you, Nya~.
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(edited by MegaRevolution1 on 12-13-12 03:26 PM)    

12-13-12 03:28 PM
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MegaRevolution1 : Ur obviously an atheist.

Now to be on topic..

For transgender I can recommend a Gender therapy lol or the SRS, I know a million of Transexuals out there
MegaRevolution1 : Ur obviously an atheist.

Now to be on topic..

For transgender I can recommend a Gender therapy lol or the SRS, I know a million of Transexuals out there
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12-13-12 03:29 PM
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DwarvenKnuckleBuster : Obviously an atheist? What a shocking Vizzed-wide discovery :O

Also, define "Gender Therapy" and "SRS", cause Gender Therapy can be many different things and I have no idea what SRS is.
DwarvenKnuckleBuster : Obviously an atheist? What a shocking Vizzed-wide discovery :O

Also, define "Gender Therapy" and "SRS", cause Gender Therapy can be many different things and I have no idea what SRS is.
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12-13-12 03:31 PM
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MegaRevolution1 : Looooool....An SRS is a sex reassignment surgery. And for gender theraphy...Oh come on, Don't tell me u don't know what therapy means LOL
MegaRevolution1 : Looooool....An SRS is a sex reassignment surgery. And for gender theraphy...Oh come on, Don't tell me u don't know what therapy means LOL
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(edited by DwarvenKnuckleBuster on 12-13-12 03:32 PM)    

12-13-12 03:37 PM
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DwarvenKnuckleBuster : Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I always refer to it as Gender Reassignment Surgery, but even then I wouldn't figure out the acronym if it were posted here, heh.

And I know what gender therapy is |: Just wasn't sure if you meant any specific kind or whatever, Nya~.
DwarvenKnuckleBuster : Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I always refer to it as Gender Reassignment Surgery, but even then I wouldn't figure out the acronym if it were posted here, heh.

And I know what gender therapy is |: Just wasn't sure if you meant any specific kind or whatever, Nya~.
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12-28-12 01:24 AM
Singelli is Offline
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*takes a deep breath*

Okay, I finally have something written up.  The problem is that at least half of it is far too 'mature' to post here, and I don't feel comfortable posting it elsewhere only to provide a link here that anyone of any age can click on.

Do any of you know a place I can post it, while making the link accessible only to certain people through a password or unique link per viewer?  (No, I don't have a facebook account and don't expect me to create one for this.)  I'd like some place where I could display the document as an image that can't be copy pasted.  (And yes, I know there are ways around that, but whatever measures could be put in place to prevent minors accessing this, I'd appreciate.)

Two notes:
1.  I am not debating this issue.  I was asked for my reasons and I'm providing them.  If you just want to attack my views, don't bother asking for the link.I don't tolerate hypocrisy and I don't plan on returning to this thread because it's not something I want to debate, frankly.  There are too many people directly affected by the issue who would be all too easily moved to start a flame war.  If you wish to read what I have written just to learn abut the opposing view, so be it.  You can ask me questions about whatever you don't understand, but don't come at me with anything remotely related to "You're an idiot and you're wrong because...."  I'll just delete your message without bothering to respond because I'm not here to get into pointless, petty arguments when most people can't debate and resort to throwing childish insults.

2. It's.... QUITE lengthy.  Longer than anything I've written here.  It has LOTS... (I mean LOTS!!!!) of data from medical cases and studies, but I tried to provide that information in the most aesthetically pleasing way possible.  I know many of you won't accept religious reasons, so although there's a small portion dedicated to such thought, it's a VERY minor part of the article I wrote.  Mainly, there are lots and lots of stats, and both researcher's and my interpretation of those stats.


I can post an abbreviated version here and take out all the mature aspects, but that would DRASTICALLY decrease the article, since most of it is in this category.  It's 1:30am here for me though, so I don't wish to work on such a task right now.  LOL  More than likely, I won't want to even look at this article I wrote for most of tomorrow.  (Talk about one major headache!).  Thus, it will probably be a little over 24 hours before I post a 'safe' (and MUCH shorter) version of what I've written.

God Bless!
*takes a deep breath*

Okay, I finally have something written up.  The problem is that at least half of it is far too 'mature' to post here, and I don't feel comfortable posting it elsewhere only to provide a link here that anyone of any age can click on.

Do any of you know a place I can post it, while making the link accessible only to certain people through a password or unique link per viewer?  (No, I don't have a facebook account and don't expect me to create one for this.)  I'd like some place where I could display the document as an image that can't be copy pasted.  (And yes, I know there are ways around that, but whatever measures could be put in place to prevent minors accessing this, I'd appreciate.)

Two notes:
1.  I am not debating this issue.  I was asked for my reasons and I'm providing them.  If you just want to attack my views, don't bother asking for the link.I don't tolerate hypocrisy and I don't plan on returning to this thread because it's not something I want to debate, frankly.  There are too many people directly affected by the issue who would be all too easily moved to start a flame war.  If you wish to read what I have written just to learn abut the opposing view, so be it.  You can ask me questions about whatever you don't understand, but don't come at me with anything remotely related to "You're an idiot and you're wrong because...."  I'll just delete your message without bothering to respond because I'm not here to get into pointless, petty arguments when most people can't debate and resort to throwing childish insults.

2. It's.... QUITE lengthy.  Longer than anything I've written here.  It has LOTS... (I mean LOTS!!!!) of data from medical cases and studies, but I tried to provide that information in the most aesthetically pleasing way possible.  I know many of you won't accept religious reasons, so although there's a small portion dedicated to such thought, it's a VERY minor part of the article I wrote.  Mainly, there are lots and lots of stats, and both researcher's and my interpretation of those stats.


I can post an abbreviated version here and take out all the mature aspects, but that would DRASTICALLY decrease the article, since most of it is in this category.  It's 1:30am here for me though, so I don't wish to work on such a task right now.  LOL  More than likely, I won't want to even look at this article I wrote for most of tomorrow.  (Talk about one major headache!).  Thus, it will probably be a little over 24 hours before I post a 'safe' (and MUCH shorter) version of what I've written.

God Bless!
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12-28-12 01:46 AM
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I agree with OP in that I believe people with gender identity disorder should be able to choose to transition. The medical community obviously also agrees that this is a legitimate disorder.

I feel as though Trans people are even more misunderstood than the "LGB" part of LGBT. Some people are seemingly unable to wrap their head around it, so to speak. Struggling with being the wrong gender like a Trans person is something they can't imagine.
I agree with OP in that I believe people with gender identity disorder should be able to choose to transition. The medical community obviously also agrees that this is a legitimate disorder.

I feel as though Trans people are even more misunderstood than the "LGB" part of LGBT. Some people are seemingly unable to wrap their head around it, so to speak. Struggling with being the wrong gender like a Trans person is something they can't imagine.
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12-28-12 04:07 AM
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Singelli : I was kind of hoping to debate you on this, but I'll respect your wishes on this matter even though I had no plans to resort to insults.

As for your concerns about minors reading it, I think all you need to do is send it by request-only via private messages. From then on, it'll be my responsibility, and I'll give you my word that I won't distribute it to children. Further precautions shouldn't be necessary, as I don't intend to get myself in trouble here, and I'm sure any minor with an internet connection can access all the sexually explicit medical research they want if they decided to look for it.

Regardless, I'm interested in what you have to say, so consider this a request for your article.


P.S. If you're worried about my displayed age, just take my word for it that I'm ready to look at "mature" things.
Singelli : I was kind of hoping to debate you on this, but I'll respect your wishes on this matter even though I had no plans to resort to insults.

As for your concerns about minors reading it, I think all you need to do is send it by request-only via private messages. From then on, it'll be my responsibility, and I'll give you my word that I won't distribute it to children. Further precautions shouldn't be necessary, as I don't intend to get myself in trouble here, and I'm sure any minor with an internet connection can access all the sexually explicit medical research they want if they decided to look for it.

Regardless, I'm interested in what you have to say, so consider this a request for your article.


P.S. If you're worried about my displayed age, just take my word for it that I'm ready to look at "mature" things.
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12-28-12 07:50 AM
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This issue is a bit of a hot topic among people I'm friends with. Not just in the internet but in real life too and I've always kind of held fast to the middle ground.

It kind of creeps me out to be honest. I'm not really sure why it does but personally it just feels wrong. I was born a man. As a result I am a man. I guess growing up I've come to find security in the few guarantees in life. One of those was always that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. Tossing this in however has admittedly caused me to choose who I hit on more and more carefully. I'm a person who wants kids. My own genetic kids. Not adopted ones. Obviously you can see where me and a transgender person wouldn't be a match. I know I'm not alone in that thought.

However... that aside, I DO respect an individual's right to choose for themselves. This is up there along with many things on the pro-choice list for me. It creeps ME out. But it's not me who needs to live with the choice of said individual. If it truly makes them happy then I'm happy for them. It's really hard to be happy with who you are in today's world and you should grasp any happiness you can.

I've had a few discussions with transgender friends, including ones that underwent gender reassignment. I still treat them the same for the most part. The only people I've seen actually insulted outright in person were guys who bedded down with the new woman or girls who did the same with a new male. And yes, they apparently can tell being the sex experts they are

But essentially those people don't matter. It's really between you and yourself. No one else.
This issue is a bit of a hot topic among people I'm friends with. Not just in the internet but in real life too and I've always kind of held fast to the middle ground.

It kind of creeps me out to be honest. I'm not really sure why it does but personally it just feels wrong. I was born a man. As a result I am a man. I guess growing up I've come to find security in the few guarantees in life. One of those was always that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. Tossing this in however has admittedly caused me to choose who I hit on more and more carefully. I'm a person who wants kids. My own genetic kids. Not adopted ones. Obviously you can see where me and a transgender person wouldn't be a match. I know I'm not alone in that thought.

However... that aside, I DO respect an individual's right to choose for themselves. This is up there along with many things on the pro-choice list for me. It creeps ME out. But it's not me who needs to live with the choice of said individual. If it truly makes them happy then I'm happy for them. It's really hard to be happy with who you are in today's world and you should grasp any happiness you can.

I've had a few discussions with transgender friends, including ones that underwent gender reassignment. I still treat them the same for the most part. The only people I've seen actually insulted outright in person were guys who bedded down with the new woman or girls who did the same with a new male. And yes, they apparently can tell being the sex experts they are

But essentially those people don't matter. It's really between you and yourself. No one else.
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12-28-12 08:26 AM
Singelli is Offline
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Q:  I thought about sending it via pm request, but as you stated, I am worried about it being sent pm to pm without my knowledge.  I don't know you or anyone else to know that won't happen to be frank.  but I suppose there's nothing to prevent that.

*thinks a bit*

I don't want to be banned for sending out explicit material and then having it spread about. LOL

Hmm. Maybe I can find away to use.... 'nicer' terms.  I think that'll make me more comfortable with sending it out via pm, since it will be a little more family friendly and those who are actually more mature than their displayed age will know what is being referenced to...... while younger and less mature individuals won't.

I'll go do that after some work out on the treadmill and then pm it to you, alright?

And thanks for respecting my wishes.  I really do hate debating.  That's my husband's forte, not mine. ^.^
Q:  I thought about sending it via pm request, but as you stated, I am worried about it being sent pm to pm without my knowledge.  I don't know you or anyone else to know that won't happen to be frank.  but I suppose there's nothing to prevent that.

*thinks a bit*

I don't want to be banned for sending out explicit material and then having it spread about. LOL

Hmm. Maybe I can find away to use.... 'nicer' terms.  I think that'll make me more comfortable with sending it out via pm, since it will be a little more family friendly and those who are actually more mature than their displayed age will know what is being referenced to...... while younger and less mature individuals won't.

I'll go do that after some work out on the treadmill and then pm it to you, alright?

And thanks for respecting my wishes.  I really do hate debating.  That's my husband's forte, not mine. ^.^
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12-29-12 11:47 AM
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Sorry about double posting, but I spent a few tries editing the last post to add this and the stupid editor would NOT space things properly, and would not save any of my changes to spacing, either.

(Side Notes: I'm not debating this.  Since the point could not be made in another thread, I'll state it as clearly as I can here: I AM NOT TRYING TO DEBATE. SOMEONE ASKED FOR MY REASONING, AND I'M GIVING IT. I'm not trying to PROVE anything to ANYONE, and I'm not playing a game to be won.  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, so don't try and change mine.  If you want to discuss this among yourselves and point out what you perceive to be errors, be my guest.  However, there are maybe ten sentences in the non- faith based part which are my own opinion, and I clearly mark them as such.  Don't be immature enough to point out what you believe to be errors and then claim -I'm- the idiot because you don't trust the work of doctors and psychiatrists.  If you want to call the doctors and psychiatrists idiots, again... be my guest.  I won't be coming back to this thread, so if you have questions and you can POLITELY state them, feel free to pm me.  I won't bite, and I don't discuss people behind their backs in pm's and chat rooms.  However, if your pm is insulting, it will be deleted without a response.  Since some people don't understand the concept: disagreement does NOT equal hate or personal attacks. This is my own personal reasoning and not a way to change the world or anyone else's opinion.
Again, do not summon me here or address me here.  I have no interest in debates and I'm not trying to prove anything.

Also, I changed the wording in some places to be more family friendly.  However, it's a lot of words to go through, so if I missed something that needs to be re-worded, please let me know.

I still consider this to have VERY MATURE CONTENT.)

First, let me start off by debunking an accusation of someone on this board:  Someone posted in a thread (I forget which one) that I refused to hear them out on this issue.  While this is true, the person made the assumption that my refusal was based off an unwillingness to learn about an issue I knew nothing about.  This is beyond untrue.  I have done much research on this topic and knew what the sides of the debate were.  However, it had been a long time since I’d done that research and so I went on this past month to gather new data.  I visited a few professors at a university nearby and was given access to medical studies and cases through the public library and the hospital’s database.  What I am about to present is not even a tenth of what I read, but to list ALL data I found would make this an improbable read.  There were 336 articles under one database, and 118 under another.  There were, of course, more than 2 possible databases to search.  Therefore, I perused and skimmed, picking ten studies after more than a few hours of reading.

On another note, let me state this before anyone tries to twist my words, as seems a popular thing to do here on vizzed: The data I am about to provide in no way represents all data.  I will be focusing on the negative stats.  That does NOT mean that there are no positive numbers in the data.  It does NOT mean I’m cherry picking.  It means that I’ve considered the pros and cons and weighed on the side of the cons.  It’s like this: If someone asked me why I didn’t like green beans, I wouldn’t start listing their nutritional values now would I?  While recognizing that those values exist, I would give you the –reasons- I did not like green beans.  The same is true with the data and viewpoints I am providing here.  A few people wondered why I’m against SRS.  Here is SOME of my reasoning.

The Faith Based Side:

As a first note, I’m sure it’s no surprise to anybody that half of my views on this topic are due to reasons based in my faith.  However, I realize most of you are atheists or VERY liberal believers of some faith or another.  Therefore, this argument to you is flawed from the get go, and there’s not much point in me spending a lot of time on it.

Of course, there’s the fact that I believe God is flawless.  God isn’t going to breathe life into an embryo, give it the body of one gender and then go “Whoops, I gave this kid the wrong body!” That idea is just absurd.  God made male and female alike.  He did not decide males were sufficient on their own, nor did he decide there should be more than two genders.  He made two, VERY distinct sexes: female and male.  Each has their own physical, psychological, and spiritual role.  There is no gray line when it comes to God’s intention in creating the two sexes.  He did not create the two genders and say “But Adam, if you feel like a girl, it’s okay.  Eve, if you feel like a man, that’s okay too.  Because your outward bodies are totally pointless and carry no significance.”

In fact, there are countless locations in the bible where cross- dressing, homosexuality, and masculinity/ feminineness are strictly outlined. Deuteronomy 22: 5 states “The woman shall not wear that which pertains to a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination to the LORD your God.”  Although this undoubtedly sounds harsh to anyone not of Christian faith, God’s feelings on the issue are so vehement because men and women were denying their biological purposes and divine roles.  God knew of the harm that could be caused by these acts… especially when these acts became comfortable enough to society that more extreme measures of gender blending would take place.  If I tell my child that I would absolutely hate their act of stealing a pen from me, this wouldn’t be done in hate, but because I know what that little act can lead to: my child thinking theft is alright and then being placed in prison some day when stealing small things is no longer satisfactory.

Deuteronomy 23:1 states “…or he [that] has his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.” Again, the consequence is severe because of the implications of the action.  To deny your sex is to deny the role God chose for you.  To do so tells God that you want nothing to do with Him and that you do not trust His judgment.

Before anyone screams, does Isaiah 56: 4- 5 contradict God’s own decree?  The verses state: “For thus says the LORD to the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; Even to them will I give in my house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.”  My answer:  Absolutely not!  In this passage, the prophet Isaiah is discussing Israelites which were exiled in Babylon and were made eunuchs against their will.  God recognized the fact that they had no choice in the matter and still loved the Lord enough to keep His covenant to the best of their abilities.

Besides this view, the term ‘eunuch’ as used in the Bible (and sometimes even in modern society) does not necessarily mean that one has been castrated. Often, the term is used to refer to men who are impotent, celibate, or infertile (the latter is a less commonly used meaning).  Although many people try to use Acts 8:26- 40 to state that transsexuals can obtain favor in the Lord’s sight, there is strong historical evidence to support the fact that the Ethiopian ‘eunuch’ in this passage was not physically defined by the word, but simply a celibate man.  He clearly had a desire to learn about the Lord, and it wasn’t uncommon for important people such as him to refrain from sexual activity.

The problem in believing that transsexuals can find favor in God lies in the difference between sinning and repenting and changing, or living a sinful lifestyle.  If someone chooses to be a transsexual or undergo SRS, chances are they aren’t changing their minds, and thus they have stepped into the realm of living constantly in sin.  As I mentioned elsewhere, God’s patience IS exhaustible, just as any parent’s.  Matthew 19: 24 actually discusses various types of eunuchs.  Jesus Himself stated “For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”  Here Jesus is saying that certain eunuchs may have a saving relationship with God.  However, He only refers to THREE kinds of eunuchs: those born as such and had no choice in the matter, those who were forced into the position by other men, and those who are not physically altered but have made the choice to stay celibate.  Jesus does NOT include men who chose to become physically altered eunuchs.  (And while I’m thinking about it, ‘men’ refers to humans in general.  So women are included in this topic.  When referring to humanity in general, it is customary to use masculine pronouns.)

Our heterosexual design is divine in nature.  The story of creation includes that of Adam and Eve, insistent that God called them ‘male’ and ‘female’.  This points to the fact that our sexual identity is a part of how we have been made.  It’s not a choice we make, and we can’t select our own gender based off how WE feel.  Man’s logic is often flawed, whilst God’s is not. An authentic change from a person’s given sex is not possible, and an ongoing transsexual lifestyle and gender reassignment is incompatible with God’s revealed Will in scripture and creation.  The subject is closely related to that of homosexuality: both are an explicit denial of the integrity of someone’s given sex.  It’s an attempt to mar the sacred image of masculinity and femaleness established by God.

To show that an authentic change is not truly possible, I will now discuss the scientific points of the argument.  (Besides this, I know most of you will view all statements above as negligible since they are based off biblical beliefs.  Let’s get down to some hardcore facts and numbers, shall we?)

The Scientific Facts:

As I stated earlier, I worked hard to give everyone some figures that would make sense. I remember doing research several years ago and coming up with similar articles, studies, and sets of data, but I never had a reason to actually write them down.   Thus, I went to the university and library a few times this month whenever I had a small bit of free time.  There were easily over 450 articles, and I perused dozens, but chose ten in which to pull data from.  These sets of data and articles were dated anywhere between 1990 and 2011.  Most (if not all of them) had multiple authors and most references studies other than their own.  Therefore, while I can cite some sources, I didn’t really feel like jotting down 500 different articles and journals and cases which my ten articles cited.  This doesn’t mean I made stuff up out of thin air.  If you want to look up the resources on your own time, go ahead. I’ll list what I can at the end of my reasoning.

My concern is this:  there is enough evidence and negative data in reference to SRS, that I believe it to be a risk not worth taking.  The social, financial, familial, professional, mental, and medical implications are far too numerous and common in my opinion.  Even if I had NO religious qualms about it, I’d still be against it for the reasons I will display in the data. If someone handed me the best tasting cookie in the world and told me that there was a 40% chance I’d end up with cancer by eating it…. I wouldn’t care HOW good the cookie tasted; I’d be against its consumption.

Is there positive data?  Yes.  Am I going to discuss it? No.  In my opinion there is enough negative data that the positive data does not affect my stance on the issue. Nobody ever talks about the negatives in this world tending towards conformity.  Here are the negatives:

There is no doubt that gender identity dysphoria exists.  It is well documents, well researched, and well supported. Defined by a deep- rooted belief of belonging to the opposite gender, there are ways doctors and psychiatrists measure the severity of a person’s dysphoria.  In fact, for many SRS’s it is actually required to go through such an evaluation.  Researches interested in the effectiveness of such medical procedures measure the symptoms of dysphoria before AND after SRS.  One tool used to measure symptoms is called the Symptom Check List- 90R.  There have been many studies to demonstrate its reliability and validity, and even today it is one of the most popular tools for measuring psychological distress and it is used in many research projects.

Snaith, Tarsh and Reid (all three reputable psychiatrists) have done a few studies using this test, and Reid even concluded that there was a 50% chance of MTF developing polycystic ovarian syndrome after surgery. There are actually many cases of declined health and emerging disorders as a result of SRS’s, but I discuss that later.  The fact is, these three professionals spent much time testing about 200 individuals from around the world who had their sex changed via surgery. They concluded from the numbers that there was actually little to no positive change in the happiness of patients who had undergone the change.  The (perhaps) surprising aspect of this is that they weren’t the only ones to come up with this conclusion.

The Leicester Gender Identity Clinic, established in 1992, successfully performed over 500 in 15 years.  In their program, every referral has to go through an initial screening assessment. This is done by psychiatric specialists and according to medical standards.  It covers demographic details, personal history detailing feelings and experiences related to gender, family history, medical history, employment, social and sexual statuses, relationships, etc.  A psychiatric diagnosis is then recorded using the ICD-10 classification system (a medical classification list by the World Health Organization which has over 16,000 codes).  As if this wasn’t extensive enough, each referral is then assessed and discussed by a multidisciplinary panel.  Anyone accepted into the program is reviewed regularly and asked to perform symptom checks from the Symptom Check List- 90R both before and after surgery.

The study I am providing data from assessed 40 random male – to- female patients.  These patients were evaluated between 2 months and sex years before surgery, to ensure they were ready for such a change.  Post- assessments were done 6 months after the surgery. The mean age of the sample population was 47.33 years with ages ranging between 25 and 80 years.
The Numbers (A higher score means more signs of the trait):


 SCL-90R Category Pre-operative Score Post-operative Score
 Problem profile totals 48.33 49.15
 Somatisation  4.18  5.45
 Obsessive-compulsive disorder 5.00  5.23
 Interpersonal sensitivity  5.03  5.25 
 Depression  8.05  8.10
 Anxiety 3.13 4.30
 Anger/hostility 2.20  2.58
 Phobic anxiety 1.63  2.73
 Paranoid ideation  3.20  4.35
 Psychoticism 3.80   4.45
 Sexual problems  6.35  4.90
 Additional scales 3.45  4.53

(The test has been revised so that categories are now on a 5 point scale, so I’m not sure why some of these are above 5.  It might be that the scale used to be arranged by 10s.)

Notice, first, that only ONE category improved: sexual problems.  Out of 40 people from different walks of life, only one aspect of their lives was improved.  This study was done in 2007, so it’s hard to cry ‘foul’ over outdated technology.  Furthermore, the researchers found it most interesting that anger and hostility increased.  (Also, according to the study, there was no relationship between these results and a patient’s age or time on a waiting list.) I personally find concern over the rating of depression.  Out of all the possible stats, depression was HIGH both before and after surgery.  What does this mean?  In my opinion it’s just another sign that GID is a legitimate concern, but that transexuality and SRS are not the solutions.

The psychiatrists who performed this study, after interviews, suspected that transgendered people had too many expectations and too many commitments in their previous male roles.  They found it difficult to survive successfully in the role of a female despite lengthy hormone therapies and pre- surgery preparations.  Many doctors and programs actually insist on a patient living as the opposite gender for an extended length of time before SRS.

Barrett, a doctor who did his own research, compared mental and social function before and after phalloplasty in female- to- male transsexuals.  It is reported that he too found no evidence of direct psychological benefits post- surgery and only found a slight fall in the quality of patients’ relationships.  He believed that unrealistically high expectations were to blame.

The negative data and studies don’t stop here.  As I said, I am merely providing a VERY small portion of all the data out there, to give some insight onto why I feel the way I do.  Whatever I provide, there’s more than likely a hundred fold of.  I know this is already insanely long, so let me just provide some numbers without much discussion, because I’ve got more points to make even aside from the data.

More numbers:

-- In 1995, Tsoi and colleagues reported the results of an investigation of 17 female- to- male transsexuals from around the world who had gone through SRS in the last six years. Tests were given 2 to 5 years after the surgeries. Eleven patients were single and struggled to find healthy and happy relationships, and only two more were married since the surgery. Before surgery 82% were satisfied with their sex lives, but only 59% were satisfied afterwards.

--In the same study, 33.3% of the patients were dissatisfied with the results of surgery. They claimed that surgical complications and functional limitations were to blame. 41% said that looking back, they would decline the experience of SRS.

-- In Sweden (1996), Bodlund and Kullgren (two psychiatrists and doctors) included nine female- to- males in their post- operation tests. They used validated tests and clinical interviews. Of the nine, one patient was unsatisfied, two stated that there was no improvement or even a worsening of their social,  psychological, and psychiatric functionability.  Thus a third in this study experienced negative results.

-- In another study done by the same couple (I think… my written notes were a little unclear here, I’m sorry) 75% of 62 female- to- male patients did not reach sexually satisfying completion after the surgery.

--Yet another study by Bodlund and Kullgren included ten male- to- females. Two said their satisfaction with life had not improved, and two judged the SRS as a complete failure to meet expectations in life change.

-- In 1997, Eldh, Berg, and Gustafsson (three doctors) studied 50 female- to- male patients after surgery.  38% reported an unsatisfactory sex life and 54% struggled to form relationships of any kind, becoming socially isolated.  Two of the patients vocalized extreme regret for the surgery.

-- Eldh and some more of his colleagues did another study the same year which included 40 male- to- female patients.  45% of the patients were dissatisfied with just their sex life, and 37.5% were dissatisfied with life as the opposite sex in general.  Two severely regretted the surgery and returned to the male sex role.

-- In 1998, Raufieish, Barth, and Battegay (I forgot to record their professions) followed up on several female- to- male transsexuals.  50% were living alone and unsatisfied with their relationships, and a notable number of patients complained about depression and substance abuse.  Only three were able to achieve sexually satisfying completion.

--In the same year, Raufieisch and some other co-workers did a follow up on 13 male- to- female transsexuals. 77%  experienced anxiety disorders, three severely regretted the surgery and two reversed it.  Eight of the thirteen were very dissatisfied and struggled to experience sexual pleasure, 9 of the 13 said they now experienced a weak sexual desire, and 2 stated they were no longer sexually intimate because of painful complications.  11 of the patients stated that they were living alone because of their declining quality of life, one lived with their mother, and one lived with a steady partner.

-- In a Dutch study done by the same people, two male- to- female patients were not able to support themselves due to emotional issues that formed after the sugary, and three said their social adjustments were unsatisfactory, while four others were completely sexually dissatisfied.  (I don’t know how many people were involved in this study.)

-- A Yugoslavian study by Rakic consisted of 22 male- to- female patients. 32% were only satisfied to one extent while 18% were not satisfied at all, leaving a success and failure rate of 50/ 50.

-- In 2005, a Dutch psychiatrist, Smith, and his co- workers used a multitude of tests to evaluate 77 male- to- female patients.  58% were not able to reach sexually satisfying completion.

Honestly, the list goes on.. and on… and on.  Dozens upon dozens of case studies result in similar results, and while there are good stats, the bad ones are just far too high in my opinion.  In almost every study, it seems as though patients only have a 50- 60% chance of having sexually satisfied lives.  Those aren’t very impressive stats for something so life-changing and risks.  Sexual satisfaction is an important aspect of an adult’s health and the negative repercussions of SRS is just too high for me to ignore.

Aside from sexual dissatisfaction, what are other risks?  Well obviously there is much preparation and follow- up needed to attempt at preparing someone for such a dramatic event.  Part of that is hormone therapy.  Hormone therapy helps with the secondary characteristics such as breast growth, soft skin, deepening voices, increased facial and body hair, etc.  Most of the time it takes two years for any evidence of the medicine’s effectiveness to show, and after surgery the hormone treatment must be constantly adjusted. The Standards of Care set by the WHO state that hormone treatment is affective, but many doctors are ready to admit that there are emotional and medical risks involved in taking hormone therapy.  The fact that there are risks, and that the success rate varies so much, brings up issues of the morality of the practice.  Advocates argue that the risks are acceptable and the benefits worth those risks, but the SOC recognizes the ethical questions some surgeons are concerned about.

One of the problems is that surgeons are usually accustomed to correcting –pathological- conditions that affect tissue.  Because SRS does not fix tissue-based pathological issues, surgeons against the surgery feel that it does not pass the basic ethical rubric of “do not harm.”  There are legal and practical issues as well which add to the ethical dilemma, since success rates are not all that impressive.  Even taking a look at the issue from a scientific standpoint, there’s still much to be learned about the shared and distinctive traits of gender- variant people (this is discussed more in full as I proceed).
Although some research has pointed out genetic and hormonal factors that make up the etiology of gender identity dysphoria, psychological factors are still hugely up in the air.  The etiology is mainly undetermined and many scientists consider it an enigma.  The uncertainty is an issue since psychological treatments targeting the pathogenesis of GID do not exist. There have even been many reported cases of existing disorders or diseases becoming worse after an SRS. This really shouldn’t be surprising considering the number of changes that must take place, weakening the body’s ability to fight anything wrong with it to begin with. I’ve read cases in which multiple sclerosis, arthritis, and disorders of the reproductive system (just to name a few) became notably worse to the point of considerable concern.

So if there are all these issues, why is it that SRS seems to be the only solution to GID?  Well, the first gender identity clinic in the USA actually opened up in 1966.  The accuracy of studies was poor most of the time according to the South and West Development and Evaluation Service, but it was still offered as a solution simply because SRS is the only treatment that has been evaluated empirically. Many of the clinicians I have read up on agree that SRS is not a cure for pathological conditions but only serves as a tool to diminish suffering of transsexuals… in other words, it’s a ‘hide the dust under the rug’ sort of deal.  Several interviews actually showed that clinicians would prefer curative treatments over SRS if they existed.

Concluding some of the studies that I pulled data from above Rehman specifically decided that while SRS was an effective tool, patients would need an incredible amount of coping skills to deal with economic, emotional, and relational stressors that are required to lead a successful and happy life.  He and his colleagues though undergoing the surgery without extensive post- operation psychotherapy was unwise at best.  He cited reasons such as scars, pain, and infections after operations…. the loss of partners, jobs, family ties, and friends.  Even though our world is becoming more and more liberal, transsexuals are still not widely accepted and the repercussions are nearly insurmountable.  Even if transsexuals are happy with their physical body, they still must face disdain from people they know and people they tell, as it’s pretty much a guarantee that they won’t meet 100% of people that are willing to completely ignore the fact.  Thus, transsexuals are almost given two options: Hide the fact that they used to be of opposite gender and thus deny an integral part of who they view themselves to be, or battle the emotional minefield of un- acceptance and even hatred in some cases. I even know several people on vizzed right now who are too afraid of reactions to their choice to comfortably voice what sex they really are and/or actually feel they are (the last few sentences are my own personal opinion and not in the articles I read).

One interesting result of a study done by Kuiper and Cohen-Kettenis (psychiatrists) in 1998 was that many people saw SRS as a necessary or helpful step to “find out who they really are”.  This was a bit astonishing to many researchers because this wasn’t something that had been asked of case studies before and seemed to be a commonality between many transsexuals n this one particular study.  This really accentuates the problem of people who suffer gender identity disorder:  they are born one sex, but are confused because they don’t ‘feel’ they should be that sex.  Of course it’s natural for them to question their feelings and not even understand their own emotions. This is also why there are numerous cases of remission to behavior of a person’s born sex after SRS.  The uncertainty involved in many cases is huge and just one more cause to be skeptical of the whole thing.

Talking of sexuality brings up a few more interesting points.

After 1998 (and probably before this, but 1998 is the first record I found), many studies incorporated sexuality into the follow- up studies of transgenders. Two doctors named Green and De Cuypere were a couple who did so, and they both concluded that there aren’t many known facts about the sexuality of people with GID.  Although it may seem improbable that an SRS would have an impact on sexuality, studies have shown that these surgeries actually do have an impact.

In 2000, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-Fourth Edition defined sexual orientation as “erotic attraction towards males, females, both, or neither”.  In the past female- to- male transsexuals have been commonly thought to be attracted to females, and since their biological sex would be considered homosexuals, these individuals would be known as female- to- male homosexuals. The reverse is true for male- to- female transsexuals.  However, when more focus was put on sexual orientation during studies, it was discovered that there was actually a much wider variety.  According to one study done in 1993 by Coleman, Bockting, and Gooren, and another study done in 200 by Chivers and Bailey, the majority of female- to- male transsexuals were attracted to women.  However, about 30% were attracted towards men.

(Another piece of my own opinion:  Personally, if a male is interested in females it’s hard to understand how he could think of himself as a lesbian.  In my opinion, such a guy is not a female homosexual who was put in a male’s body; he’s a straight guy that likes feminine things.  Vice versa for females that like males but feel as though they’re in the wrong body.  I've known several people with GID, and even here on vizzed, I pegged several people for their right gender long before I knew that name color was supposed to help you determine the gender of the poster.  Every person with GID I have met who claimed to be one gender... had the characteristics, attitudes, personalities, and interests of their biologicial gender.  When I dicussed my observations with them, they admitted that this was true.  This is a phenomenon I discuss later.However, I understand the argument that hormones and other things make people with the disorder physical feel uncomfortable with their sex, so I digress.)

Interestingly enough, a doctor by the name of Lawrence conducted a study in 2005 which marked a pretty significant change in sexual orientation. She documented that homosexual orientations were 80% at the highest and 14% at the lowest pre- operations.  Post- operation, homosexual orientations were 95% at the highest end and 41% at the lowest end.
De Cuypere and his colleagues performed their own study that same year and found that before SRS 19 of 23 females had stable relationships and partners of the same sex.  However, after the surgeries, the new ‘males’ still chose female partners for the most part.  Only 1 of the transsexuals was able to keep a steady relationship, and only one chose a male partner after the sex change.  When looking at a sample of 32 male- to female transgenders, 45.5% had stable sexual relationships and chose female partners before their surgeries.  After their surgeries, this number fell to 26.3%.   These studies didn’t just measure the number of relationships, but also measured actual attraction to the two sexes via surveys and tests.  Lawrence reported that 30 male- to- females (13.5%) were exclusively attracted to females before surgery and exclusively to males afterwards.  In her own study and in that of Bodlund and Kullgren, only 11% of the married transsexuals remained married after SRS.
 Despite having a masculine appearance, they still felt uncertain about their gender and ability to pull off the role of ‘male’. The majority of people in the same study felt lonely without a steady sexual relationship and noted that finding a partner was a major challenge.  In fact, this seemed to be common between many studies, some done by De Cuypere in 2005, Eldh in 1997, Lawrence in 2005, Lobato in 2006, and Smith in 2005.  Sexual satisfaction was a crucial part of overall life satisfaction and happiness with the surgery.

Then, between the years of 1995 and 2005, new measures were developed for SRS satisfaction. Many of these took into account genital responses of transgendered people when near either of the two sexes. When studying a group of male- to- females in 2005, Lawrence and her coworkers found that transsexuals experienced a far lower physiological sexual arousal than biological women.  Balsma and his colleagues found similar results.  In 2004, Chivers and his colleagues found that male- to- female transgenders experienced a genital reaction to BOTH sexes.  (Lawrence’s study mentioned above found the same results). Although this reaction was stronger for the preferred sex, the clinical implications were clear: the synthetically formed female genitals responded as a male’s genitals would when faced with the same stimuli. This means that the body and psyche were still affected by biological gender.

Of course, this brings up many issues in the area of sexual orientation and can discomfort the homosexual community. It’s no secret that a huge part of the homosexual debate is where the orientation lies on the ‘nature versus nurture’ spectrum.  Homosexuals or avid supporters of homosexuality aren’t big fans of the idea that therapeutic sessions or spiritual discipline can ease the tendencies and desires.  Most clinicians would agree despite the uncertainty in its causes.

Since homosexuals and people suffering gender identity dysphoria both have healthy sex organs and a set of appropriate chromosomes, it’d be unfeasible to name a biological basis alone.  Therefore it’s been necessary to look beyond this scope and focus on social and psychological factors.  However, that’s not really a concern here and so I won’t really discuss the depth of the issue. The studies have yet to elicit a consensus among all professionals, but they have brought up interesting cases like the one above (with the sexual arousal in transgenders).

Another example involves a study which involved 14 boys born with cloacal estrophy.  This birth defect leaves newborns without complete genitalia, and sometimes the babies are even born with organs hanging outside of their body cavities.  The baby boys are usually born with genitals too small to perform well and genital reconstruction is very complicated.  Therefore, many surgeons castrate the newborn babies, dose them on estrogen and then advise the parents to raise the baby boys as girls.

In 2004, William Reiner and John Gearheart decided to follow up on 14 cases of boys between 5 and 16 years old.  They were all reassigned as girls from birth and none were made aware of their born gender. Eight of the 14 boys identified themselves as males and were interested in masculine things.  They also exhibited masculine personalities and attitude tendencies.  Four of these eight said that they had –always- felt themselves to be male.  3 of the 14 did not feel any preference to either gender.  The other 5 still living as female were the youngest and so it was hypothesized that they were quite possibly too young to be at an awareness of their gender.

When Reiner and Gearhart published their findings an issue of The New England Journal of Medicine, it was concluded in this study that changing the gender of a baby through surgery, hormonal treatments, or even upbringing doesn’t effectively change the gender that a person eventually identifies with.  Does this mean that the treatments are completely ineffective?  As I’ve stated before, no.  Nor does this mean there are no other options out there.  Up until the mid ‘70s as a matter of fact, the dominant view was that gender dysphoria could be treated by psychotherapy.  However, it wasn’t even until 2007 that any randomized controlled studies evaluated other interventions used to ‘cure’ dysphoria.

A psychiatrist named Barlow and his colleagues performed studies in 1973, 1977, and 1970, but the studies only consisted of four cases.  Three of the cases were young transsexual men who were 17, 25, and 26.  These young men went through a behavioral program that focused on sexuality, arousal, orientation and social abilities.  After a period ranging from 3 to 6 years, all three men had a considerable remission of their transsexual desires.  Their fourth case involved a faith healing and reportedly ‘cured’ a 21 year old man.

Marks and Mataix-Cols (two psychiatrists) performed a study in 1997, but this study only involved ONE case of a man who was 42 years old. They reported that behavior therapy resulted in the loss of both the patient’s transsexual tendencies and homosexual desires.  In 2000, after taking a look at nine other medical studies and five cases from Green’s clinic, these two psychiatrists and Green concluded that dysphoria can indeed remit with treatments other than hormone treatment. They also concluded that psychotherapy for at least ten years was effective.

There are other cases as well, but the problem is that psychotherapeutic treatments nearly disappeared because they weren’t systematically or empirically evaluated.  This doesn’t mean SRS is a perfect cure.  In fact, the effectiveness of SRS is not even known to have a methodologically perfect evaluation.  One system which was developed by the Oxford Centre for Evidence- Based Medicine rates medical practices on four levels (as of 2007).  Level A is the best and Level D is the worst.  After going through various recent studies, the center rated SRS at level B… “at most”, but with serious reservations.

The problem is that it’s nearly impossible to perform randomized control trials with SRS. In order to have such trials, doctors would have to be willing to offer no treatment at all to some patients, which would be unethical.  Besides the moral question, many SR patients have already been on a long waiting list, and waiting some more is something very few would be willing to try for the sake of evaluations.  This gives the treatment of SRS a huge bias and is often referred to as the ONLY solution to dysphoria.  Other aspects of the treatment, such as hormone therapy, become completely ignored.  Many of the treatment phases such as ‘real life experience’, hormone therapy, and psychotherapy are actually highly advocated by the Standards of Care set by the World Professional Organization of Transgender Health.  There simply are no studies done on them to measure their sole effects and outcomes thanks to red tape, long waiting periods, and lack of willing participants in the evaluation studies

Even as being the only empirically evaluated treatment, there are just too many uncertainties about it.  Some people live sexually satisfying lives and some do not.  Some are happy with their surgeries and some are not.  There isn’t even a standard for what causes this variability, and there aren’t any theoretical models which can effectively help doctors and psychiatrists to understand it.  Even placing satisfaction aside, the sexual functioning of transsexuals is unknown for long periods of time, and sexological care is undeveloped for SRS patients.

The studies that I posted on sexuality (and others like them) alone should demonstrate how important it is to have an effective evaluation of SRS.  Even though SRS alleviates the discomfort  GID patients feel, other outcome variable cannot be ignored, because they play an equally important role in one’s satisfaction in life.

This isn’t the only issue when the treatment of SRS is considered.  Traditionally, SRS was given as a solution for patients based of a psychiatric perspective, and only in an attempt to diminish the suffering of patients with GID. However, more modernly, SRS is also being looked at from a humanistic perspective, and debates have developed between the sciences on the fact that SRS is also an attempt to help people reach self- actualization. This debate between psychopathological reasons for SRS and humanistic reasons for SRS doesn’t lead to any innovation in the treatment for GID.  Instead, SRS is offered as an only solution to both perspectives.  

A simple look at similar ‘disorders’ (forgive the use of the word.. the appropriate word has just slipped my mind at the moment) quite possibly hints at other effective solutions, however.  If we look into studies in 2007 done by more than a few psychiatrists (Carroll, Cole and his colleagues, Korrell and Lorah, Lawrence, and Lev are just a few of them), we see that people with other gender variances often choose treatments other than SRS such as hormone treatment.  In fact, there are several countries which have private practices where clinicians offer the treatments.  It should be no secret that there are individuals all over the world that use hormones, speech therapy, laser treatment (for physical appearances), and the like to deal with their gender issues.

More and more recently, these treatments are being passed down to younger ages as well. Children from the ages of 12 and up are more frequently visiting gender identity clinics and so early treatment is now offered in many countries, including the United States. One of the problems and my personal issues with SRS is that secondary sex characteristics of biological sex can NOT be incompletely reversed after puberty.  This is a known fact and so doctors and psychiatrists have begun stalling puberty in some young teenagers who feel uncertain about their gender.  By suppressing puberty, doctors and psychiatrists feel like they are buying time for self- examination by the patient.

Not only do I personally find this insanely disturbing, but it’s also not a good practice.  Blocking puberty interferes with the development of bone mass, bone growth, and brain development.  Although steroids can be given to females, this only has a CHANCE of helping a female reach a normal masculine height.  In other words, clinicians are willing to stop a normal part of the growth process and then amp kids up on steroids on the off- chance that the results MIGHT be desirable.

Additionally, if puberty is not allowed to play its role, phallic growth is stunted and the genital tissue stands a next- to- none chance of –ever- functioning properly.  The tissue then available for synthetically formed female genitals is not ideal or optimal.  These aren’t the only risks, and in fact many of the risks are partially unknown and outcomes are uncertain.  Young applicants and parents are made aware of the risks for each stage of pre- operation therapy, but even 16 seems like an extremely young age to jump to one solution without much knowledge or experience in the world, and without exploring options outside of SRS first.  The monopoly on GID treatment is, in my opinion, a little sickening even if there are some good stats out there.

Medical perspective aside, there are other reasons I oppose transexualism and SRS.  They mainly involve the social, economic, and relational implications however, and I think most people are aware of those issues so I don’t think there’s a need to discuss them.  I remain by my opinion:  If you’re born a female in body, you’re a female.  If you’re born a male in body, you’re a male.  That shouldn’t be changed for any reason.  Gender dysphoria IS a real concern and for those that suffer through it, I firmly believe there are methods out there which help those negative emotions (other than SRS).


SOME of my sources
(I apologize in advance, but I don't remember how to properly cite and I'm sure nobody would throw a fit if they weren't professionally cited. LOL)

-Title: Psychological functions in male-to-female transsexual people before and after surgery.
Source: Sexual & Relationship Therapy; May2008, Vol. 23 Issue 2, p141-145
Authors: Udeze, Abdelmawla, Khoosal, Terry

-Title: Mitochondrial DNA mutations in a patient with sex reversal and clinical features consistent with Fraser syndrome.
Source: Clinical Genetics; Mar2005, Vol. 67 Issue 3, p252-257
Authors: Wong, L., Lin, Y., Suwannarat, Hsu, Kwon, H., Mackowiak S.

-Title: Surgical Treatment of Gender Dysphoria in Adults and Adolescents: Recent Developments, Effectiveness, and Challenges.
Source: Annual Review of Sex Research; 2007, Vol. 18, p178-224
Authors: Gijs, Brewaeys

-Title: Gender change and its impact on the course of multiple sclerosis.
Source: Acta Neurologica Scandinavica; May2006, Vol. 113 Issue 5, p347-349
Authors: Reske, D.

-Title: Once a Male, Always a Male.
Source: Science Now; 1/23/2004, p1
Authors: Beckman, Mary

-Title: Cross dressing and gender dysphoria in people with learning disabilities: a descriptive study.
Source: British Journal of Learning Disabilities; Jun2009, Vol. 37 Issue 2, p151-156
Authors: Parkes, Hall, Ian, Wilson, Daniel

-Title: Female gender dysphoria in context: Social problem or personal problem.
Source: Annual Review of Sex Research; 1996, Vol. 7, p44-46
Authors: Devor, Holly

-Title: Transsexualism--general outcome and prognostic factors: a five-year follow-up study of nineteen transsexuals in the process of changing sex.
Source: Arch Sex Behavior.Jun 199 Volume 3, p303-316.
Authors: Bodlund O, Kullgren G.

-Title: Long-term follow up after sex reassignment surgery.
Source: Scandinavian Plastic Reconstruction Surgery, Hand Surgery. Mar 1997, Volume 1, p39-45.
Authors: Eldh J, Berg A, Gustafsson M
Sorry about double posting, but I spent a few tries editing the last post to add this and the stupid editor would NOT space things properly, and would not save any of my changes to spacing, either.

(Side Notes: I'm not debating this.  Since the point could not be made in another thread, I'll state it as clearly as I can here: I AM NOT TRYING TO DEBATE. SOMEONE ASKED FOR MY REASONING, AND I'M GIVING IT. I'm not trying to PROVE anything to ANYONE, and I'm not playing a game to be won.  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, so don't try and change mine.  If you want to discuss this among yourselves and point out what you perceive to be errors, be my guest.  However, there are maybe ten sentences in the non- faith based part which are my own opinion, and I clearly mark them as such.  Don't be immature enough to point out what you believe to be errors and then claim -I'm- the idiot because you don't trust the work of doctors and psychiatrists.  If you want to call the doctors and psychiatrists idiots, again... be my guest.  I won't be coming back to this thread, so if you have questions and you can POLITELY state them, feel free to pm me.  I won't bite, and I don't discuss people behind their backs in pm's and chat rooms.  However, if your pm is insulting, it will be deleted without a response.  Since some people don't understand the concept: disagreement does NOT equal hate or personal attacks. This is my own personal reasoning and not a way to change the world or anyone else's opinion.
Again, do not summon me here or address me here.  I have no interest in debates and I'm not trying to prove anything.

Also, I changed the wording in some places to be more family friendly.  However, it's a lot of words to go through, so if I missed something that needs to be re-worded, please let me know.

I still consider this to have VERY MATURE CONTENT.)

First, let me start off by debunking an accusation of someone on this board:  Someone posted in a thread (I forget which one) that I refused to hear them out on this issue.  While this is true, the person made the assumption that my refusal was based off an unwillingness to learn about an issue I knew nothing about.  This is beyond untrue.  I have done much research on this topic and knew what the sides of the debate were.  However, it had been a long time since I’d done that research and so I went on this past month to gather new data.  I visited a few professors at a university nearby and was given access to medical studies and cases through the public library and the hospital’s database.  What I am about to present is not even a tenth of what I read, but to list ALL data I found would make this an improbable read.  There were 336 articles under one database, and 118 under another.  There were, of course, more than 2 possible databases to search.  Therefore, I perused and skimmed, picking ten studies after more than a few hours of reading.

On another note, let me state this before anyone tries to twist my words, as seems a popular thing to do here on vizzed: The data I am about to provide in no way represents all data.  I will be focusing on the negative stats.  That does NOT mean that there are no positive numbers in the data.  It does NOT mean I’m cherry picking.  It means that I’ve considered the pros and cons and weighed on the side of the cons.  It’s like this: If someone asked me why I didn’t like green beans, I wouldn’t start listing their nutritional values now would I?  While recognizing that those values exist, I would give you the –reasons- I did not like green beans.  The same is true with the data and viewpoints I am providing here.  A few people wondered why I’m against SRS.  Here is SOME of my reasoning.

The Faith Based Side:

As a first note, I’m sure it’s no surprise to anybody that half of my views on this topic are due to reasons based in my faith.  However, I realize most of you are atheists or VERY liberal believers of some faith or another.  Therefore, this argument to you is flawed from the get go, and there’s not much point in me spending a lot of time on it.

Of course, there’s the fact that I believe God is flawless.  God isn’t going to breathe life into an embryo, give it the body of one gender and then go “Whoops, I gave this kid the wrong body!” That idea is just absurd.  God made male and female alike.  He did not decide males were sufficient on their own, nor did he decide there should be more than two genders.  He made two, VERY distinct sexes: female and male.  Each has their own physical, psychological, and spiritual role.  There is no gray line when it comes to God’s intention in creating the two sexes.  He did not create the two genders and say “But Adam, if you feel like a girl, it’s okay.  Eve, if you feel like a man, that’s okay too.  Because your outward bodies are totally pointless and carry no significance.”

In fact, there are countless locations in the bible where cross- dressing, homosexuality, and masculinity/ feminineness are strictly outlined. Deuteronomy 22: 5 states “The woman shall not wear that which pertains to a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination to the LORD your God.”  Although this undoubtedly sounds harsh to anyone not of Christian faith, God’s feelings on the issue are so vehement because men and women were denying their biological purposes and divine roles.  God knew of the harm that could be caused by these acts… especially when these acts became comfortable enough to society that more extreme measures of gender blending would take place.  If I tell my child that I would absolutely hate their act of stealing a pen from me, this wouldn’t be done in hate, but because I know what that little act can lead to: my child thinking theft is alright and then being placed in prison some day when stealing small things is no longer satisfactory.

Deuteronomy 23:1 states “…or he [that] has his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.” Again, the consequence is severe because of the implications of the action.  To deny your sex is to deny the role God chose for you.  To do so tells God that you want nothing to do with Him and that you do not trust His judgment.

Before anyone screams, does Isaiah 56: 4- 5 contradict God’s own decree?  The verses state: “For thus says the LORD to the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; Even to them will I give in my house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.”  My answer:  Absolutely not!  In this passage, the prophet Isaiah is discussing Israelites which were exiled in Babylon and were made eunuchs against their will.  God recognized the fact that they had no choice in the matter and still loved the Lord enough to keep His covenant to the best of their abilities.

Besides this view, the term ‘eunuch’ as used in the Bible (and sometimes even in modern society) does not necessarily mean that one has been castrated. Often, the term is used to refer to men who are impotent, celibate, or infertile (the latter is a less commonly used meaning).  Although many people try to use Acts 8:26- 40 to state that transsexuals can obtain favor in the Lord’s sight, there is strong historical evidence to support the fact that the Ethiopian ‘eunuch’ in this passage was not physically defined by the word, but simply a celibate man.  He clearly had a desire to learn about the Lord, and it wasn’t uncommon for important people such as him to refrain from sexual activity.

The problem in believing that transsexuals can find favor in God lies in the difference between sinning and repenting and changing, or living a sinful lifestyle.  If someone chooses to be a transsexual or undergo SRS, chances are they aren’t changing their minds, and thus they have stepped into the realm of living constantly in sin.  As I mentioned elsewhere, God’s patience IS exhaustible, just as any parent’s.  Matthew 19: 24 actually discusses various types of eunuchs.  Jesus Himself stated “For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”  Here Jesus is saying that certain eunuchs may have a saving relationship with God.  However, He only refers to THREE kinds of eunuchs: those born as such and had no choice in the matter, those who were forced into the position by other men, and those who are not physically altered but have made the choice to stay celibate.  Jesus does NOT include men who chose to become physically altered eunuchs.  (And while I’m thinking about it, ‘men’ refers to humans in general.  So women are included in this topic.  When referring to humanity in general, it is customary to use masculine pronouns.)

Our heterosexual design is divine in nature.  The story of creation includes that of Adam and Eve, insistent that God called them ‘male’ and ‘female’.  This points to the fact that our sexual identity is a part of how we have been made.  It’s not a choice we make, and we can’t select our own gender based off how WE feel.  Man’s logic is often flawed, whilst God’s is not. An authentic change from a person’s given sex is not possible, and an ongoing transsexual lifestyle and gender reassignment is incompatible with God’s revealed Will in scripture and creation.  The subject is closely related to that of homosexuality: both are an explicit denial of the integrity of someone’s given sex.  It’s an attempt to mar the sacred image of masculinity and femaleness established by God.

To show that an authentic change is not truly possible, I will now discuss the scientific points of the argument.  (Besides this, I know most of you will view all statements above as negligible since they are based off biblical beliefs.  Let’s get down to some hardcore facts and numbers, shall we?)

The Scientific Facts:

As I stated earlier, I worked hard to give everyone some figures that would make sense. I remember doing research several years ago and coming up with similar articles, studies, and sets of data, but I never had a reason to actually write them down.   Thus, I went to the university and library a few times this month whenever I had a small bit of free time.  There were easily over 450 articles, and I perused dozens, but chose ten in which to pull data from.  These sets of data and articles were dated anywhere between 1990 and 2011.  Most (if not all of them) had multiple authors and most references studies other than their own.  Therefore, while I can cite some sources, I didn’t really feel like jotting down 500 different articles and journals and cases which my ten articles cited.  This doesn’t mean I made stuff up out of thin air.  If you want to look up the resources on your own time, go ahead. I’ll list what I can at the end of my reasoning.

My concern is this:  there is enough evidence and negative data in reference to SRS, that I believe it to be a risk not worth taking.  The social, financial, familial, professional, mental, and medical implications are far too numerous and common in my opinion.  Even if I had NO religious qualms about it, I’d still be against it for the reasons I will display in the data. If someone handed me the best tasting cookie in the world and told me that there was a 40% chance I’d end up with cancer by eating it…. I wouldn’t care HOW good the cookie tasted; I’d be against its consumption.

Is there positive data?  Yes.  Am I going to discuss it? No.  In my opinion there is enough negative data that the positive data does not affect my stance on the issue. Nobody ever talks about the negatives in this world tending towards conformity.  Here are the negatives:

There is no doubt that gender identity dysphoria exists.  It is well documents, well researched, and well supported. Defined by a deep- rooted belief of belonging to the opposite gender, there are ways doctors and psychiatrists measure the severity of a person’s dysphoria.  In fact, for many SRS’s it is actually required to go through such an evaluation.  Researches interested in the effectiveness of such medical procedures measure the symptoms of dysphoria before AND after SRS.  One tool used to measure symptoms is called the Symptom Check List- 90R.  There have been many studies to demonstrate its reliability and validity, and even today it is one of the most popular tools for measuring psychological distress and it is used in many research projects.

Snaith, Tarsh and Reid (all three reputable psychiatrists) have done a few studies using this test, and Reid even concluded that there was a 50% chance of MTF developing polycystic ovarian syndrome after surgery. There are actually many cases of declined health and emerging disorders as a result of SRS’s, but I discuss that later.  The fact is, these three professionals spent much time testing about 200 individuals from around the world who had their sex changed via surgery. They concluded from the numbers that there was actually little to no positive change in the happiness of patients who had undergone the change.  The (perhaps) surprising aspect of this is that they weren’t the only ones to come up with this conclusion.

The Leicester Gender Identity Clinic, established in 1992, successfully performed over 500 in 15 years.  In their program, every referral has to go through an initial screening assessment. This is done by psychiatric specialists and according to medical standards.  It covers demographic details, personal history detailing feelings and experiences related to gender, family history, medical history, employment, social and sexual statuses, relationships, etc.  A psychiatric diagnosis is then recorded using the ICD-10 classification system (a medical classification list by the World Health Organization which has over 16,000 codes).  As if this wasn’t extensive enough, each referral is then assessed and discussed by a multidisciplinary panel.  Anyone accepted into the program is reviewed regularly and asked to perform symptom checks from the Symptom Check List- 90R both before and after surgery.

The study I am providing data from assessed 40 random male – to- female patients.  These patients were evaluated between 2 months and sex years before surgery, to ensure they were ready for such a change.  Post- assessments were done 6 months after the surgery. The mean age of the sample population was 47.33 years with ages ranging between 25 and 80 years.
The Numbers (A higher score means more signs of the trait):


 SCL-90R Category Pre-operative Score Post-operative Score
 Problem profile totals 48.33 49.15
 Somatisation  4.18  5.45
 Obsessive-compulsive disorder 5.00  5.23
 Interpersonal sensitivity  5.03  5.25 
 Depression  8.05  8.10
 Anxiety 3.13 4.30
 Anger/hostility 2.20  2.58
 Phobic anxiety 1.63  2.73
 Paranoid ideation  3.20  4.35
 Psychoticism 3.80   4.45
 Sexual problems  6.35  4.90
 Additional scales 3.45  4.53

(The test has been revised so that categories are now on a 5 point scale, so I’m not sure why some of these are above 5.  It might be that the scale used to be arranged by 10s.)

Notice, first, that only ONE category improved: sexual problems.  Out of 40 people from different walks of life, only one aspect of their lives was improved.  This study was done in 2007, so it’s hard to cry ‘foul’ over outdated technology.  Furthermore, the researchers found it most interesting that anger and hostility increased.  (Also, according to the study, there was no relationship between these results and a patient’s age or time on a waiting list.) I personally find concern over the rating of depression.  Out of all the possible stats, depression was HIGH both before and after surgery.  What does this mean?  In my opinion it’s just another sign that GID is a legitimate concern, but that transexuality and SRS are not the solutions.

The psychiatrists who performed this study, after interviews, suspected that transgendered people had too many expectations and too many commitments in their previous male roles.  They found it difficult to survive successfully in the role of a female despite lengthy hormone therapies and pre- surgery preparations.  Many doctors and programs actually insist on a patient living as the opposite gender for an extended length of time before SRS.

Barrett, a doctor who did his own research, compared mental and social function before and after phalloplasty in female- to- male transsexuals.  It is reported that he too found no evidence of direct psychological benefits post- surgery and only found a slight fall in the quality of patients’ relationships.  He believed that unrealistically high expectations were to blame.

The negative data and studies don’t stop here.  As I said, I am merely providing a VERY small portion of all the data out there, to give some insight onto why I feel the way I do.  Whatever I provide, there’s more than likely a hundred fold of.  I know this is already insanely long, so let me just provide some numbers without much discussion, because I’ve got more points to make even aside from the data.

More numbers:

-- In 1995, Tsoi and colleagues reported the results of an investigation of 17 female- to- male transsexuals from around the world who had gone through SRS in the last six years. Tests were given 2 to 5 years after the surgeries. Eleven patients were single and struggled to find healthy and happy relationships, and only two more were married since the surgery. Before surgery 82% were satisfied with their sex lives, but only 59% were satisfied afterwards.

--In the same study, 33.3% of the patients were dissatisfied with the results of surgery. They claimed that surgical complications and functional limitations were to blame. 41% said that looking back, they would decline the experience of SRS.

-- In Sweden (1996), Bodlund and Kullgren (two psychiatrists and doctors) included nine female- to- males in their post- operation tests. They used validated tests and clinical interviews. Of the nine, one patient was unsatisfied, two stated that there was no improvement or even a worsening of their social,  psychological, and psychiatric functionability.  Thus a third in this study experienced negative results.

-- In another study done by the same couple (I think… my written notes were a little unclear here, I’m sorry) 75% of 62 female- to- male patients did not reach sexually satisfying completion after the surgery.

--Yet another study by Bodlund and Kullgren included ten male- to- females. Two said their satisfaction with life had not improved, and two judged the SRS as a complete failure to meet expectations in life change.

-- In 1997, Eldh, Berg, and Gustafsson (three doctors) studied 50 female- to- male patients after surgery.  38% reported an unsatisfactory sex life and 54% struggled to form relationships of any kind, becoming socially isolated.  Two of the patients vocalized extreme regret for the surgery.

-- Eldh and some more of his colleagues did another study the same year which included 40 male- to- female patients.  45% of the patients were dissatisfied with just their sex life, and 37.5% were dissatisfied with life as the opposite sex in general.  Two severely regretted the surgery and returned to the male sex role.

-- In 1998, Raufieish, Barth, and Battegay (I forgot to record their professions) followed up on several female- to- male transsexuals.  50% were living alone and unsatisfied with their relationships, and a notable number of patients complained about depression and substance abuse.  Only three were able to achieve sexually satisfying completion.

--In the same year, Raufieisch and some other co-workers did a follow up on 13 male- to- female transsexuals. 77%  experienced anxiety disorders, three severely regretted the surgery and two reversed it.  Eight of the thirteen were very dissatisfied and struggled to experience sexual pleasure, 9 of the 13 said they now experienced a weak sexual desire, and 2 stated they were no longer sexually intimate because of painful complications.  11 of the patients stated that they were living alone because of their declining quality of life, one lived with their mother, and one lived with a steady partner.

-- In a Dutch study done by the same people, two male- to- female patients were not able to support themselves due to emotional issues that formed after the sugary, and three said their social adjustments were unsatisfactory, while four others were completely sexually dissatisfied.  (I don’t know how many people were involved in this study.)

-- A Yugoslavian study by Rakic consisted of 22 male- to- female patients. 32% were only satisfied to one extent while 18% were not satisfied at all, leaving a success and failure rate of 50/ 50.

-- In 2005, a Dutch psychiatrist, Smith, and his co- workers used a multitude of tests to evaluate 77 male- to- female patients.  58% were not able to reach sexually satisfying completion.

Honestly, the list goes on.. and on… and on.  Dozens upon dozens of case studies result in similar results, and while there are good stats, the bad ones are just far too high in my opinion.  In almost every study, it seems as though patients only have a 50- 60% chance of having sexually satisfied lives.  Those aren’t very impressive stats for something so life-changing and risks.  Sexual satisfaction is an important aspect of an adult’s health and the negative repercussions of SRS is just too high for me to ignore.

Aside from sexual dissatisfaction, what are other risks?  Well obviously there is much preparation and follow- up needed to attempt at preparing someone for such a dramatic event.  Part of that is hormone therapy.  Hormone therapy helps with the secondary characteristics such as breast growth, soft skin, deepening voices, increased facial and body hair, etc.  Most of the time it takes two years for any evidence of the medicine’s effectiveness to show, and after surgery the hormone treatment must be constantly adjusted. The Standards of Care set by the WHO state that hormone treatment is affective, but many doctors are ready to admit that there are emotional and medical risks involved in taking hormone therapy.  The fact that there are risks, and that the success rate varies so much, brings up issues of the morality of the practice.  Advocates argue that the risks are acceptable and the benefits worth those risks, but the SOC recognizes the ethical questions some surgeons are concerned about.

One of the problems is that surgeons are usually accustomed to correcting –pathological- conditions that affect tissue.  Because SRS does not fix tissue-based pathological issues, surgeons against the surgery feel that it does not pass the basic ethical rubric of “do not harm.”  There are legal and practical issues as well which add to the ethical dilemma, since success rates are not all that impressive.  Even taking a look at the issue from a scientific standpoint, there’s still much to be learned about the shared and distinctive traits of gender- variant people (this is discussed more in full as I proceed).
Although some research has pointed out genetic and hormonal factors that make up the etiology of gender identity dysphoria, psychological factors are still hugely up in the air.  The etiology is mainly undetermined and many scientists consider it an enigma.  The uncertainty is an issue since psychological treatments targeting the pathogenesis of GID do not exist. There have even been many reported cases of existing disorders or diseases becoming worse after an SRS. This really shouldn’t be surprising considering the number of changes that must take place, weakening the body’s ability to fight anything wrong with it to begin with. I’ve read cases in which multiple sclerosis, arthritis, and disorders of the reproductive system (just to name a few) became notably worse to the point of considerable concern.

So if there are all these issues, why is it that SRS seems to be the only solution to GID?  Well, the first gender identity clinic in the USA actually opened up in 1966.  The accuracy of studies was poor most of the time according to the South and West Development and Evaluation Service, but it was still offered as a solution simply because SRS is the only treatment that has been evaluated empirically. Many of the clinicians I have read up on agree that SRS is not a cure for pathological conditions but only serves as a tool to diminish suffering of transsexuals… in other words, it’s a ‘hide the dust under the rug’ sort of deal.  Several interviews actually showed that clinicians would prefer curative treatments over SRS if they existed.

Concluding some of the studies that I pulled data from above Rehman specifically decided that while SRS was an effective tool, patients would need an incredible amount of coping skills to deal with economic, emotional, and relational stressors that are required to lead a successful and happy life.  He and his colleagues though undergoing the surgery without extensive post- operation psychotherapy was unwise at best.  He cited reasons such as scars, pain, and infections after operations…. the loss of partners, jobs, family ties, and friends.  Even though our world is becoming more and more liberal, transsexuals are still not widely accepted and the repercussions are nearly insurmountable.  Even if transsexuals are happy with their physical body, they still must face disdain from people they know and people they tell, as it’s pretty much a guarantee that they won’t meet 100% of people that are willing to completely ignore the fact.  Thus, transsexuals are almost given two options: Hide the fact that they used to be of opposite gender and thus deny an integral part of who they view themselves to be, or battle the emotional minefield of un- acceptance and even hatred in some cases. I even know several people on vizzed right now who are too afraid of reactions to their choice to comfortably voice what sex they really are and/or actually feel they are (the last few sentences are my own personal opinion and not in the articles I read).

One interesting result of a study done by Kuiper and Cohen-Kettenis (psychiatrists) in 1998 was that many people saw SRS as a necessary or helpful step to “find out who they really are”.  This was a bit astonishing to many researchers because this wasn’t something that had been asked of case studies before and seemed to be a commonality between many transsexuals n this one particular study.  This really accentuates the problem of people who suffer gender identity disorder:  they are born one sex, but are confused because they don’t ‘feel’ they should be that sex.  Of course it’s natural for them to question their feelings and not even understand their own emotions. This is also why there are numerous cases of remission to behavior of a person’s born sex after SRS.  The uncertainty involved in many cases is huge and just one more cause to be skeptical of the whole thing.

Talking of sexuality brings up a few more interesting points.

After 1998 (and probably before this, but 1998 is the first record I found), many studies incorporated sexuality into the follow- up studies of transgenders. Two doctors named Green and De Cuypere were a couple who did so, and they both concluded that there aren’t many known facts about the sexuality of people with GID.  Although it may seem improbable that an SRS would have an impact on sexuality, studies have shown that these surgeries actually do have an impact.

In 2000, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-Fourth Edition defined sexual orientation as “erotic attraction towards males, females, both, or neither”.  In the past female- to- male transsexuals have been commonly thought to be attracted to females, and since their biological sex would be considered homosexuals, these individuals would be known as female- to- male homosexuals. The reverse is true for male- to- female transsexuals.  However, when more focus was put on sexual orientation during studies, it was discovered that there was actually a much wider variety.  According to one study done in 1993 by Coleman, Bockting, and Gooren, and another study done in 200 by Chivers and Bailey, the majority of female- to- male transsexuals were attracted to women.  However, about 30% were attracted towards men.

(Another piece of my own opinion:  Personally, if a male is interested in females it’s hard to understand how he could think of himself as a lesbian.  In my opinion, such a guy is not a female homosexual who was put in a male’s body; he’s a straight guy that likes feminine things.  Vice versa for females that like males but feel as though they’re in the wrong body.  I've known several people with GID, and even here on vizzed, I pegged several people for their right gender long before I knew that name color was supposed to help you determine the gender of the poster.  Every person with GID I have met who claimed to be one gender... had the characteristics, attitudes, personalities, and interests of their biologicial gender.  When I dicussed my observations with them, they admitted that this was true.  This is a phenomenon I discuss later.However, I understand the argument that hormones and other things make people with the disorder physical feel uncomfortable with their sex, so I digress.)

Interestingly enough, a doctor by the name of Lawrence conducted a study in 2005 which marked a pretty significant change in sexual orientation. She documented that homosexual orientations were 80% at the highest and 14% at the lowest pre- operations.  Post- operation, homosexual orientations were 95% at the highest end and 41% at the lowest end.
De Cuypere and his colleagues performed their own study that same year and found that before SRS 19 of 23 females had stable relationships and partners of the same sex.  However, after the surgeries, the new ‘males’ still chose female partners for the most part.  Only 1 of the transsexuals was able to keep a steady relationship, and only one chose a male partner after the sex change.  When looking at a sample of 32 male- to female transgenders, 45.5% had stable sexual relationships and chose female partners before their surgeries.  After their surgeries, this number fell to 26.3%.   These studies didn’t just measure the number of relationships, but also measured actual attraction to the two sexes via surveys and tests.  Lawrence reported that 30 male- to- females (13.5%) were exclusively attracted to females before surgery and exclusively to males afterwards.  In her own study and in that of Bodlund and Kullgren, only 11% of the married transsexuals remained married after SRS.
 Despite having a masculine appearance, they still felt uncertain about their gender and ability to pull off the role of ‘male’. The majority of people in the same study felt lonely without a steady sexual relationship and noted that finding a partner was a major challenge.  In fact, this seemed to be common between many studies, some done by De Cuypere in 2005, Eldh in 1997, Lawrence in 2005, Lobato in 2006, and Smith in 2005.  Sexual satisfaction was a crucial part of overall life satisfaction and happiness with the surgery.

Then, between the years of 1995 and 2005, new measures were developed for SRS satisfaction. Many of these took into account genital responses of transgendered people when near either of the two sexes. When studying a group of male- to- females in 2005, Lawrence and her coworkers found that transsexuals experienced a far lower physiological sexual arousal than biological women.  Balsma and his colleagues found similar results.  In 2004, Chivers and his colleagues found that male- to- female transgenders experienced a genital reaction to BOTH sexes.  (Lawrence’s study mentioned above found the same results). Although this reaction was stronger for the preferred sex, the clinical implications were clear: the synthetically formed female genitals responded as a male’s genitals would when faced with the same stimuli. This means that the body and psyche were still affected by biological gender.

Of course, this brings up many issues in the area of sexual orientation and can discomfort the homosexual community. It’s no secret that a huge part of the homosexual debate is where the orientation lies on the ‘nature versus nurture’ spectrum.  Homosexuals or avid supporters of homosexuality aren’t big fans of the idea that therapeutic sessions or spiritual discipline can ease the tendencies and desires.  Most clinicians would agree despite the uncertainty in its causes.

Since homosexuals and people suffering gender identity dysphoria both have healthy sex organs and a set of appropriate chromosomes, it’d be unfeasible to name a biological basis alone.  Therefore it’s been necessary to look beyond this scope and focus on social and psychological factors.  However, that’s not really a concern here and so I won’t really discuss the depth of the issue. The studies have yet to elicit a consensus among all professionals, but they have brought up interesting cases like the one above (with the sexual arousal in transgenders).

Another example involves a study which involved 14 boys born with cloacal estrophy.  This birth defect leaves newborns without complete genitalia, and sometimes the babies are even born with organs hanging outside of their body cavities.  The baby boys are usually born with genitals too small to perform well and genital reconstruction is very complicated.  Therefore, many surgeons castrate the newborn babies, dose them on estrogen and then advise the parents to raise the baby boys as girls.

In 2004, William Reiner and John Gearheart decided to follow up on 14 cases of boys between 5 and 16 years old.  They were all reassigned as girls from birth and none were made aware of their born gender. Eight of the 14 boys identified themselves as males and were interested in masculine things.  They also exhibited masculine personalities and attitude tendencies.  Four of these eight said that they had –always- felt themselves to be male.  3 of the 14 did not feel any preference to either gender.  The other 5 still living as female were the youngest and so it was hypothesized that they were quite possibly too young to be at an awareness of their gender.

When Reiner and Gearhart published their findings an issue of The New England Journal of Medicine, it was concluded in this study that changing the gender of a baby through surgery, hormonal treatments, or even upbringing doesn’t effectively change the gender that a person eventually identifies with.  Does this mean that the treatments are completely ineffective?  As I’ve stated before, no.  Nor does this mean there are no other options out there.  Up until the mid ‘70s as a matter of fact, the dominant view was that gender dysphoria could be treated by psychotherapy.  However, it wasn’t even until 2007 that any randomized controlled studies evaluated other interventions used to ‘cure’ dysphoria.

A psychiatrist named Barlow and his colleagues performed studies in 1973, 1977, and 1970, but the studies only consisted of four cases.  Three of the cases were young transsexual men who were 17, 25, and 26.  These young men went through a behavioral program that focused on sexuality, arousal, orientation and social abilities.  After a period ranging from 3 to 6 years, all three men had a considerable remission of their transsexual desires.  Their fourth case involved a faith healing and reportedly ‘cured’ a 21 year old man.

Marks and Mataix-Cols (two psychiatrists) performed a study in 1997, but this study only involved ONE case of a man who was 42 years old. They reported that behavior therapy resulted in the loss of both the patient’s transsexual tendencies and homosexual desires.  In 2000, after taking a look at nine other medical studies and five cases from Green’s clinic, these two psychiatrists and Green concluded that dysphoria can indeed remit with treatments other than hormone treatment. They also concluded that psychotherapy for at least ten years was effective.

There are other cases as well, but the problem is that psychotherapeutic treatments nearly disappeared because they weren’t systematically or empirically evaluated.  This doesn’t mean SRS is a perfect cure.  In fact, the effectiveness of SRS is not even known to have a methodologically perfect evaluation.  One system which was developed by the Oxford Centre for Evidence- Based Medicine rates medical practices on four levels (as of 2007).  Level A is the best and Level D is the worst.  After going through various recent studies, the center rated SRS at level B… “at most”, but with serious reservations.

The problem is that it’s nearly impossible to perform randomized control trials with SRS. In order to have such trials, doctors would have to be willing to offer no treatment at all to some patients, which would be unethical.  Besides the moral question, many SR patients have already been on a long waiting list, and waiting some more is something very few would be willing to try for the sake of evaluations.  This gives the treatment of SRS a huge bias and is often referred to as the ONLY solution to dysphoria.  Other aspects of the treatment, such as hormone therapy, become completely ignored.  Many of the treatment phases such as ‘real life experience’, hormone therapy, and psychotherapy are actually highly advocated by the Standards of Care set by the World Professional Organization of Transgender Health.  There simply are no studies done on them to measure their sole effects and outcomes thanks to red tape, long waiting periods, and lack of willing participants in the evaluation studies

Even as being the only empirically evaluated treatment, there are just too many uncertainties about it.  Some people live sexually satisfying lives and some do not.  Some are happy with their surgeries and some are not.  There isn’t even a standard for what causes this variability, and there aren’t any theoretical models which can effectively help doctors and psychiatrists to understand it.  Even placing satisfaction aside, the sexual functioning of transsexuals is unknown for long periods of time, and sexological care is undeveloped for SRS patients.

The studies that I posted on sexuality (and others like them) alone should demonstrate how important it is to have an effective evaluation of SRS.  Even though SRS alleviates the discomfort  GID patients feel, other outcome variable cannot be ignored, because they play an equally important role in one’s satisfaction in life.

This isn’t the only issue when the treatment of SRS is considered.  Traditionally, SRS was given as a solution for patients based of a psychiatric perspective, and only in an attempt to diminish the suffering of patients with GID. However, more modernly, SRS is also being looked at from a humanistic perspective, and debates have developed between the sciences on the fact that SRS is also an attempt to help people reach self- actualization. This debate between psychopathological reasons for SRS and humanistic reasons for SRS doesn’t lead to any innovation in the treatment for GID.  Instead, SRS is offered as an only solution to both perspectives.  

A simple look at similar ‘disorders’ (forgive the use of the word.. the appropriate word has just slipped my mind at the moment) quite possibly hints at other effective solutions, however.  If we look into studies in 2007 done by more than a few psychiatrists (Carroll, Cole and his colleagues, Korrell and Lorah, Lawrence, and Lev are just a few of them), we see that people with other gender variances often choose treatments other than SRS such as hormone treatment.  In fact, there are several countries which have private practices where clinicians offer the treatments.  It should be no secret that there are individuals all over the world that use hormones, speech therapy, laser treatment (for physical appearances), and the like to deal with their gender issues.

More and more recently, these treatments are being passed down to younger ages as well. Children from the ages of 12 and up are more frequently visiting gender identity clinics and so early treatment is now offered in many countries, including the United States. One of the problems and my personal issues with SRS is that secondary sex characteristics of biological sex can NOT be incompletely reversed after puberty.  This is a known fact and so doctors and psychiatrists have begun stalling puberty in some young teenagers who feel uncertain about their gender.  By suppressing puberty, doctors and psychiatrists feel like they are buying time for self- examination by the patient.

Not only do I personally find this insanely disturbing, but it’s also not a good practice.  Blocking puberty interferes with the development of bone mass, bone growth, and brain development.  Although steroids can be given to females, this only has a CHANCE of helping a female reach a normal masculine height.  In other words, clinicians are willing to stop a normal part of the growth process and then amp kids up on steroids on the off- chance that the results MIGHT be desirable.

Additionally, if puberty is not allowed to play its role, phallic growth is stunted and the genital tissue stands a next- to- none chance of –ever- functioning properly.  The tissue then available for synthetically formed female genitals is not ideal or optimal.  These aren’t the only risks, and in fact many of the risks are partially unknown and outcomes are uncertain.  Young applicants and parents are made aware of the risks for each stage of pre- operation therapy, but even 16 seems like an extremely young age to jump to one solution without much knowledge or experience in the world, and without exploring options outside of SRS first.  The monopoly on GID treatment is, in my opinion, a little sickening even if there are some good stats out there.

Medical perspective aside, there are other reasons I oppose transexualism and SRS.  They mainly involve the social, economic, and relational implications however, and I think most people are aware of those issues so I don’t think there’s a need to discuss them.  I remain by my opinion:  If you’re born a female in body, you’re a female.  If you’re born a male in body, you’re a male.  That shouldn’t be changed for any reason.  Gender dysphoria IS a real concern and for those that suffer through it, I firmly believe there are methods out there which help those negative emotions (other than SRS).


SOME of my sources
(I apologize in advance, but I don't remember how to properly cite and I'm sure nobody would throw a fit if they weren't professionally cited. LOL)

-Title: Psychological functions in male-to-female transsexual people before and after surgery.
Source: Sexual & Relationship Therapy; May2008, Vol. 23 Issue 2, p141-145
Authors: Udeze, Abdelmawla, Khoosal, Terry

-Title: Mitochondrial DNA mutations in a patient with sex reversal and clinical features consistent with Fraser syndrome.
Source: Clinical Genetics; Mar2005, Vol. 67 Issue 3, p252-257
Authors: Wong, L., Lin, Y., Suwannarat, Hsu, Kwon, H., Mackowiak S.

-Title: Surgical Treatment of Gender Dysphoria in Adults and Adolescents: Recent Developments, Effectiveness, and Challenges.
Source: Annual Review of Sex Research; 2007, Vol. 18, p178-224
Authors: Gijs, Brewaeys

-Title: Gender change and its impact on the course of multiple sclerosis.
Source: Acta Neurologica Scandinavica; May2006, Vol. 113 Issue 5, p347-349
Authors: Reske, D.

-Title: Once a Male, Always a Male.
Source: Science Now; 1/23/2004, p1
Authors: Beckman, Mary

-Title: Cross dressing and gender dysphoria in people with learning disabilities: a descriptive study.
Source: British Journal of Learning Disabilities; Jun2009, Vol. 37 Issue 2, p151-156
Authors: Parkes, Hall, Ian, Wilson, Daniel

-Title: Female gender dysphoria in context: Social problem or personal problem.
Source: Annual Review of Sex Research; 1996, Vol. 7, p44-46
Authors: Devor, Holly

-Title: Transsexualism--general outcome and prognostic factors: a five-year follow-up study of nineteen transsexuals in the process of changing sex.
Source: Arch Sex Behavior.Jun 199 Volume 3, p303-316.
Authors: Bodlund O, Kullgren G.

-Title: Long-term follow up after sex reassignment surgery.
Source: Scandinavian Plastic Reconstruction Surgery, Hand Surgery. Mar 1997, Volume 1, p39-45.
Authors: Eldh J, Berg A, Gustafsson M
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It's their body, let them do what they want. I do think that it's also a necessity for them to inform anyone they might get into a relationship with that they are transgender.

No matter what studies have been done, this is in no way an attack on Singelli or her information, and no matter how the people may end up feeling afterwards, they have every right to get a sex change if they so feel the need.

It's more about the right to choose over the choice itself. I doubt I've ever known a TG or TS, but then I do live in the Podunks of Florida, but I'm always about choice.
It's their body, let them do what they want. I do think that it's also a necessity for them to inform anyone they might get into a relationship with that they are transgender.

No matter what studies have been done, this is in no way an attack on Singelli or her information, and no matter how the people may end up feeling afterwards, they have every right to get a sex change if they so feel the need.

It's more about the right to choose over the choice itself. I doubt I've ever known a TG or TS, but then I do live in the Podunks of Florida, but I'm always about choice.
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Honestly what someone does with their life is their business. It really has no effect on me. If that's what makes them happy then they should be free to pursue that happiness. So many people are concerned with things like this that really doesn't effect them. Whom are we to stop someone from being happy?
Honestly what someone does with their life is their business. It really has no effect on me. If that's what makes them happy then they should be free to pursue that happiness. So many people are concerned with things like this that really doesn't effect them. Whom are we to stop someone from being happy?
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I think its not bad just curious or wondering.   Some grow out of it and then, some don't and that's where it get fuzzy for me.  General rule they start acting gay around me and I set the boundaries.  They break them and I leave.
I think its not bad just curious or wondering.   Some grow out of it and then, some don't and that's where it get fuzzy for me.  General rule they start acting gay around me and I set the boundaries.  They break them and I leave.
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I guess it's about time I weigh in here. As usual, I don't really care what other people do so long as it's not detrimental to others. To me, if there's no victim, there's no crime. People should have the freedom to do what they want to their own bodies.

So now let's get to the subject of whether or not I agree with the idea of transgenders. This may come to a surprise to those who have come to realize how liberal-minded I am... but I actually don't understand the transgender thing. Once again, I'm not going to speak against anyone who decides they're "in the wrong body" but I don't believe that this is a thing that should be. In my opinion, people don't really get "put in the wrong bodies". That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I realize some people feel that way... but this could be a result of other issues really.

I think people tend to put too much stock in gender and gender roles. Society dictates that males have to act a certain way and females have to act a certain different way and there are things that males are supposed to like (the color blue, sports, things that are rugged) and things that girls are supposed to like (the color pink, ponies, and fashion). To me, this is utter garbage. I'm a female who likes the color blue, does enjoy some sports, and kind of rough, can't stand the color pink and could care less about style and fashion. The way I behave and my tastes are more in line with what society classifies as "male"... but do I feel that I should have been a male instead? Not really. Would me being a male make me any different than I am now? Not really.

I do believe I have a non-traditional gender identity disorder in that I don't actually identify with a gender. I'm just me. Male, female... it's all irrelevant. I don't believe in gender classifications. I know what I am physically and that doesn't really have any real impact in my life (unless you were to get into the X-rated portion which isn't a topic for this board).

But really, I think that private areas are the only real difference between male and female and that's not something that defines a person. If the way you feel sounds closer to what society considers the gender opposite of yours... it just means that society's expectations are wrong (and stupid) and you shouldn't listen to them. It doesn't mean that you have to change your body so that you "fit" with what society expects. If other people don't want to understand or accept you for who you naturally are, I say those people are worthless. You shouldn't need to change anything for them.

I've heard people who have had operations say they feel more liberated... but I wonder if having an altered body/hormones is REALLY what's making them feel liberated or if it's more of a psychological desire to be the gender they think they were "supposed" to be. I suspect that at least in some cases, the person only feels better because the people they meet don't judge them for "acting like the opposite gender" any longer.
I guess it's about time I weigh in here. As usual, I don't really care what other people do so long as it's not detrimental to others. To me, if there's no victim, there's no crime. People should have the freedom to do what they want to their own bodies.

So now let's get to the subject of whether or not I agree with the idea of transgenders. This may come to a surprise to those who have come to realize how liberal-minded I am... but I actually don't understand the transgender thing. Once again, I'm not going to speak against anyone who decides they're "in the wrong body" but I don't believe that this is a thing that should be. In my opinion, people don't really get "put in the wrong bodies". That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I realize some people feel that way... but this could be a result of other issues really.

I think people tend to put too much stock in gender and gender roles. Society dictates that males have to act a certain way and females have to act a certain different way and there are things that males are supposed to like (the color blue, sports, things that are rugged) and things that girls are supposed to like (the color pink, ponies, and fashion). To me, this is utter garbage. I'm a female who likes the color blue, does enjoy some sports, and kind of rough, can't stand the color pink and could care less about style and fashion. The way I behave and my tastes are more in line with what society classifies as "male"... but do I feel that I should have been a male instead? Not really. Would me being a male make me any different than I am now? Not really.

I do believe I have a non-traditional gender identity disorder in that I don't actually identify with a gender. I'm just me. Male, female... it's all irrelevant. I don't believe in gender classifications. I know what I am physically and that doesn't really have any real impact in my life (unless you were to get into the X-rated portion which isn't a topic for this board).

But really, I think that private areas are the only real difference between male and female and that's not something that defines a person. If the way you feel sounds closer to what society considers the gender opposite of yours... it just means that society's expectations are wrong (and stupid) and you shouldn't listen to them. It doesn't mean that you have to change your body so that you "fit" with what society expects. If other people don't want to understand or accept you for who you naturally are, I say those people are worthless. You shouldn't need to change anything for them.

I've heard people who have had operations say they feel more liberated... but I wonder if having an altered body/hormones is REALLY what's making them feel liberated or if it's more of a psychological desire to be the gender they think they were "supposed" to be. I suspect that at least in some cases, the person only feels better because the people they meet don't judge them for "acting like the opposite gender" any longer.
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Hm. Sorry about bringing up this somewhat old topic but I was just thinking about this "god does not make mistakes"-issue. Why would we have to think that god made a mistake creating a transsexual person? Or to think that since god is so flawless, he would only create straight christians who only by some evil chance become something else.

I personally wish this issue would not be religious at all. I am not ofcource sure how many transgender people you know and who are your actual friends, so I have no idea how you base your opinions on something you know and have seen with your own eyes and not on just religious values or just because you find something you don't know "scary" and "confusing".

From my point of few, having met and having been friends with both transgenders and transvestites, they are just people like you and me. With both their faults and their best sides. And for sure they did not just wake up one day and decide to be what they are. We are just people, everyone of us.
Hm. Sorry about bringing up this somewhat old topic but I was just thinking about this "god does not make mistakes"-issue. Why would we have to think that god made a mistake creating a transsexual person? Or to think that since god is so flawless, he would only create straight christians who only by some evil chance become something else.

I personally wish this issue would not be religious at all. I am not ofcource sure how many transgender people you know and who are your actual friends, so I have no idea how you base your opinions on something you know and have seen with your own eyes and not on just religious values or just because you find something you don't know "scary" and "confusing".

From my point of few, having met and having been friends with both transgenders and transvestites, they are just people like you and me. With both their faults and their best sides. And for sure they did not just wake up one day and decide to be what they are. We are just people, everyone of us.
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