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How would I accept him, without concrete evidence?

 

09-22-12 12:15 PM
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Ktanaqui : What do you mean by the new testament edited out a lot of the more gruesome stuff? Edited from what? The New Testament is no less gruesome than the Old Testament.

As for your analysis of the Old Testament, I think you missed out the theological purpose of the Old Testament. I think you are referring to the Leviticus laws, which is directed only to the Israelites, with God's purpose of establishing a Holy people and to declare what is sinful. So it is not like how Hitler applying Social Darwinism by picking characteristics of people, but God is defining sin, separating Israel from other pagan nations, and to let everyone know that God takes sin very seriously, and with both the new and old testament, the penalty of sin is death. It doesn't say that people can just kill people for specific reasons, but that it is a law of their governing system, so it is the officials that pass sentence.

Also, I wonder where you find "love everybody" as the main point of the Old Testament.
Ktanaqui : What do you mean by the new testament edited out a lot of the more gruesome stuff? Edited from what? The New Testament is no less gruesome than the Old Testament.

As for your analysis of the Old Testament, I think you missed out the theological purpose of the Old Testament. I think you are referring to the Leviticus laws, which is directed only to the Israelites, with God's purpose of establishing a Holy people and to declare what is sinful. So it is not like how Hitler applying Social Darwinism by picking characteristics of people, but God is defining sin, separating Israel from other pagan nations, and to let everyone know that God takes sin very seriously, and with both the new and old testament, the penalty of sin is death. It doesn't say that people can just kill people for specific reasons, but that it is a law of their governing system, so it is the officials that pass sentence.

Also, I wonder where you find "love everybody" as the main point of the Old Testament.
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09-23-12 03:06 AM
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play4fun : I seem to remember Deuteronomy has some of it too. So no, I'm not referring to Levictus. And I'm sorry; I haven't read the New Testament, only the old. I was going off of the way people reacted to the new one as if it had absolutely /nothing/ bad in it.
play4fun : I seem to remember Deuteronomy has some of it too. So no, I'm not referring to Levictus. And I'm sorry; I haven't read the New Testament, only the old. I was going off of the way people reacted to the new one as if it had absolutely /nothing/ bad in it.
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09-23-12 05:01 AM
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As we all well know, when someone tells a story to another person, that story over time gets stretched. Much of the Old Testament would have been impossible to write as it was happening, considering that written language still did not exist at the time of Earth's creation. Many stories had to be passed down through generations before ever being written, not considering the fact that The Bible as well as most other religious documents have been translated roughly... an uncountable amount of times. Being the king, there is nothing to say that King James couldn't have edited The Bible to suit his liking, and to fit the laws of the church. Also, if you really think about it, for God to speak to his creations and for them to understand would seem impossible. This is because no imperfect being could possibly understand and translate the word of a perfect being without error. There would have to be countless instances in The Bible where there was error in trying to perform a perfect act through an imperfect being. Furthermore, there is no physical justification that what you see or hear is in fact of God. In the time of Christ, maybe, but in this era, I have yet to see something so magical or fantastical that it could be considered a 'miracle'. For instance, the story of Moses in this day and age would make one seem totally insane if one claimed that God 'spoke' to them and told them to build a giant boat. Most often, people who claim to see and hear things are branded as mentally ill, and I am not saying that they may not see and hear these things, but no one person can know for a fact if it is God or not. It could be God, it could be us telling ourselves what we want to believe, or it could be alien life. Each of these would be an equally justifiable solution as to where the visions are coming from, because we have no significant form of concrete evidence to identify any specific origin as undoubtedly valid.

Just as there is a near perfect probability that life exists elsewhere in a universe seemingly immeasurable by man, there is also a very high probability that all which was set in motion in order for the planet to survive was initiated by something of higher intelligence. Still, even if we could prove that God exists, there is no way of knowing the true nature of said God. We do not know what it is, where it is, where it came from, its true nature, or if there is not something greater than it. We can't even verify if it is immortal, or even still exists. The entity which created life for us could just as well have an entity. In this case, there would be no way of pinpointing the true origin of all creation; it would just be an infinite cycle we could never wrap our minds around.

Predictions could be a form of validation of The Bible, but because these predictions are so vague, it would still be unlikely that they provide any real foundation for evidence. Most of the instances written are given minute detail and vast time frames. I could say that sometime within the next 100 years there will be an earthquake, a machine that can break down atomic matter and then reconstruct it, and that there will be a powerful dictator whom will rise and fall. As I leave out dates and specifics such as location, the probability of my being correct increases. However, as more detail is added to said events, the probability of being correct in my prediction decreases significantly. It just seems too much of a coincidence to me that The Bible would make vague predictions and claim them as evidence that it is indeed the word of God, without any specifics to give it a more concrete probability of being the truth. Furthermore, it also seems too coincidental that in the time of Christ people were given very detailed physical evidence of God's presence, (Jesus rising from his tomb, the ark, the parting of the Red Sea, etc.) but not a single shred of that physical evidence still exists today.

Honestly, Leggy, it doesn't matter if religion is real or not when it is concerning the matter of self-fulfillment. Some look to faith and tradition and find that it makes their lives more gratifying. I know just as many people, including myself, that find happiness in life without it. Whatever you believe in is your prerogative, but you should never change those beliefs in hopes of finding happiness if you know that you are lying to yourself; in the end, you will only end up confused and miserable. If you are atheist and become theist through what you believe to be a revelation, great. If you are a theist, and come to realize that you have no reason to believe in God and are an atheist, then that's also great. What I am trying to say, is believe something because you truly believe it, not just because you want to believe it. If you are an atheist and want to find any reason to latch on to God simply because you want to believe, it seems as though that would most likely displease God just as much as it would if you just chose to remain an atheist. It is better to believe in something because you truly feel it in your heart, or not believe anything at all, than it is to believe in something without reason.

I hope that maybe my opinions help provide you with some insight and give you arguments to consider, regardless of what you decide is right for you in the end.


As we all well know, when someone tells a story to another person, that story over time gets stretched. Much of the Old Testament would have been impossible to write as it was happening, considering that written language still did not exist at the time of Earth's creation. Many stories had to be passed down through generations before ever being written, not considering the fact that The Bible as well as most other religious documents have been translated roughly... an uncountable amount of times. Being the king, there is nothing to say that King James couldn't have edited The Bible to suit his liking, and to fit the laws of the church. Also, if you really think about it, for God to speak to his creations and for them to understand would seem impossible. This is because no imperfect being could possibly understand and translate the word of a perfect being without error. There would have to be countless instances in The Bible where there was error in trying to perform a perfect act through an imperfect being. Furthermore, there is no physical justification that what you see or hear is in fact of God. In the time of Christ, maybe, but in this era, I have yet to see something so magical or fantastical that it could be considered a 'miracle'. For instance, the story of Moses in this day and age would make one seem totally insane if one claimed that God 'spoke' to them and told them to build a giant boat. Most often, people who claim to see and hear things are branded as mentally ill, and I am not saying that they may not see and hear these things, but no one person can know for a fact if it is God or not. It could be God, it could be us telling ourselves what we want to believe, or it could be alien life. Each of these would be an equally justifiable solution as to where the visions are coming from, because we have no significant form of concrete evidence to identify any specific origin as undoubtedly valid.

Just as there is a near perfect probability that life exists elsewhere in a universe seemingly immeasurable by man, there is also a very high probability that all which was set in motion in order for the planet to survive was initiated by something of higher intelligence. Still, even if we could prove that God exists, there is no way of knowing the true nature of said God. We do not know what it is, where it is, where it came from, its true nature, or if there is not something greater than it. We can't even verify if it is immortal, or even still exists. The entity which created life for us could just as well have an entity. In this case, there would be no way of pinpointing the true origin of all creation; it would just be an infinite cycle we could never wrap our minds around.

Predictions could be a form of validation of The Bible, but because these predictions are so vague, it would still be unlikely that they provide any real foundation for evidence. Most of the instances written are given minute detail and vast time frames. I could say that sometime within the next 100 years there will be an earthquake, a machine that can break down atomic matter and then reconstruct it, and that there will be a powerful dictator whom will rise and fall. As I leave out dates and specifics such as location, the probability of my being correct increases. However, as more detail is added to said events, the probability of being correct in my prediction decreases significantly. It just seems too much of a coincidence to me that The Bible would make vague predictions and claim them as evidence that it is indeed the word of God, without any specifics to give it a more concrete probability of being the truth. Furthermore, it also seems too coincidental that in the time of Christ people were given very detailed physical evidence of God's presence, (Jesus rising from his tomb, the ark, the parting of the Red Sea, etc.) but not a single shred of that physical evidence still exists today.

Honestly, Leggy, it doesn't matter if religion is real or not when it is concerning the matter of self-fulfillment. Some look to faith and tradition and find that it makes their lives more gratifying. I know just as many people, including myself, that find happiness in life without it. Whatever you believe in is your prerogative, but you should never change those beliefs in hopes of finding happiness if you know that you are lying to yourself; in the end, you will only end up confused and miserable. If you are atheist and become theist through what you believe to be a revelation, great. If you are a theist, and come to realize that you have no reason to believe in God and are an atheist, then that's also great. What I am trying to say, is believe something because you truly believe it, not just because you want to believe it. If you are an atheist and want to find any reason to latch on to God simply because you want to believe, it seems as though that would most likely displease God just as much as it would if you just chose to remain an atheist. It is better to believe in something because you truly feel it in your heart, or not believe anything at all, than it is to believe in something without reason.

I hope that maybe my opinions help provide you with some insight and give you arguments to consider, regardless of what you decide is right for you in the end.

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(edited by GuardianZack on 09-23-12 05:52 AM)    

09-23-12 11:34 PM
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Ktanaqui : Yeah, both Leviticus and Deuteronomy has them.

Hmmm, so how are you making an opinion about the Bible when you didn't even read or at least a solid understanding about the Bible? You can't just base off of hearsay or other people's reaction blindly without looking into it yourself, getting false information without knowing it. For example, Jesus' death on the cross is quite gruesome and quite an embarrassing punishment.

And just to clarify, New Testament is not a "Re-vamped" version, but as a continuation from the old testament. The reason it's call "new" is relating to formation of the new covenant by God during this time, but it is not an edit of the Old testament.
Ktanaqui : Yeah, both Leviticus and Deuteronomy has them.

Hmmm, so how are you making an opinion about the Bible when you didn't even read or at least a solid understanding about the Bible? You can't just base off of hearsay or other people's reaction blindly without looking into it yourself, getting false information without knowing it. For example, Jesus' death on the cross is quite gruesome and quite an embarrassing punishment.

And just to clarify, New Testament is not a "Re-vamped" version, but as a continuation from the old testament. The reason it's call "new" is relating to formation of the new covenant by God during this time, but it is not an edit of the Old testament.
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09-24-12 12:42 AM
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play4fun : Re-read my post: I did not read the /new/ testament. The old testament... *shakes head* Rather awful, IMO. But it's not just Christianity; all religions have practices that I don't really care for. (Exempting Wiccans. I have yet to see any gruesome "these people must die" texts. They are probably there somewhere though.)

I'd love to have something to believe in... It'd give me hope in a world of pain where I seem to have none. My best friend is my only spot of bright light. It'd be nice to have something... anything, that I can feel... OK in.
play4fun : Re-read my post: I did not read the /new/ testament. The old testament... *shakes head* Rather awful, IMO. But it's not just Christianity; all religions have practices that I don't really care for. (Exempting Wiccans. I have yet to see any gruesome "these people must die" texts. They are probably there somewhere though.)

I'd love to have something to believe in... It'd give me hope in a world of pain where I seem to have none. My best friend is my only spot of bright light. It'd be nice to have something... anything, that I can feel... OK in.
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09-24-12 02:06 AM
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Ktanaqui : Christians don't practice that stuff from the Old Testament to the letter; because of Christ's willingness to bear our sins on the cross he established a new covenant which superseded the old. Hence Old and New Testament. We still learn from the Old Testament scriptures though, although we aren't killing people according to law of that time. Really it was a law for the Israelites at the time, and why was it a law? God wanted to show that his people was above all nations.

The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament by the way.
Ktanaqui : Christians don't practice that stuff from the Old Testament to the letter; because of Christ's willingness to bear our sins on the cross he established a new covenant which superseded the old. Hence Old and New Testament. We still learn from the Old Testament scriptures though, although we aren't killing people according to law of that time. Really it was a law for the Israelites at the time, and why was it a law? God wanted to show that his people was above all nations.

The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament by the way.
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I was aware of the "same God" part. The fact that it was specifically about the Israelites means little to me; they're still "different" which gives weight to my "God wants the people who are different dead" argument.
I was aware of the "same God" part. The fact that it was specifically about the Israelites means little to me; they're still "different" which gives weight to my "God wants the people who are different dead" argument.
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Ktanaqui : Back then it was that way... I'm not going to attempt to try explaining the culture of back then and then try to compare it to today's culture - I wasn't there in that time neither were any of us.

The killing back then was because the other nations were sinful. Today we have Christ's forgiveness which he offers to everyone.
Ktanaqui : Back then it was that way... I'm not going to attempt to try explaining the culture of back then and then try to compare it to today's culture - I wasn't there in that time neither were any of us.

The killing back then was because the other nations were sinful. Today we have Christ's forgiveness which he offers to everyone.
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10-12-12 10:02 PM
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legacyme3 : I am an alive proof that God exists.

I remember there was a time I almost committed suicide, and put the knife in front of my neck, ready to cut it, but somehow something came and made me put down the knife.

There was days that I was very afflict, and I went into the church, during the juvenile days, the subject of the day from the Bible (not sure of it's name in English) was exactly what I was feeling, and I felt it was talking to me, I felt something good taking over me, making me feel better, made me cry, because God was actually answering to what I was feeling, and it didn't happened only once, it happened a lot of times, all the times I was feeling bad, unhappy and thinking about giving up, when I went to him he always gave me the answer, he never let me down, never!
if I didn't received help from God  and I decided to not follow God, I wouldn't be here, I wouldn't become a drug dealer, but I would have committed suicide a long time ago, I would have not even met Vizzed and get some of the things that I always desired to have, or receive.

So Leggy, here is the concrete proof you were looking for to believe in God, if you still don't believe on God, come talk to me.
legacyme3 : I am an alive proof that God exists.

I remember there was a time I almost committed suicide, and put the knife in front of my neck, ready to cut it, but somehow something came and made me put down the knife.

There was days that I was very afflict, and I went into the church, during the juvenile days, the subject of the day from the Bible (not sure of it's name in English) was exactly what I was feeling, and I felt it was talking to me, I felt something good taking over me, making me feel better, made me cry, because God was actually answering to what I was feeling, and it didn't happened only once, it happened a lot of times, all the times I was feeling bad, unhappy and thinking about giving up, when I went to him he always gave me the answer, he never let me down, never!
if I didn't received help from God  and I decided to not follow God, I wouldn't be here, I wouldn't become a drug dealer, but I would have committed suicide a long time ago, I would have not even met Vizzed and get some of the things that I always desired to have, or receive.

So Leggy, here is the concrete proof you were looking for to believe in God, if you still don't believe on God, come talk to me.
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Seishiro Leonhart : What stopped you was the fear of death, or knowing that you will have much to regret if you were to kill yourself.

I've almost committed suicide multiple times. My reason for not doing so? Easy. Last regrets. The thing I would regret most would be leaving behind my friends who need me.

The feelings you had were just you wanting to believe. If you believe hard enough, you will believe that it's true, whether it be wrong or right.
Want an example? N-Rays. Look 'em up. The scientist who "discovered" N-Rays was dead set of finding them, "knowing" that they were there. His belief over-influenced his "discovery". as a result, when the day when everyone came to determine his scientific study, they were not surprised to find that N-Rays were all in his mind, never real.
(I thank Dark Matters on this :V)

A "personal experience" as well does not count for "concrete proof". If I were to say that I was walking along the forests of the northern west cost of the US and claim that I saw Bigfoot, and thus say that it is concrete proof that he exists, without any video or photographic evidence at all, would that TRULY make it "concrete proof"?
Seishiro Leonhart : What stopped you was the fear of death, or knowing that you will have much to regret if you were to kill yourself.

I've almost committed suicide multiple times. My reason for not doing so? Easy. Last regrets. The thing I would regret most would be leaving behind my friends who need me.

The feelings you had were just you wanting to believe. If you believe hard enough, you will believe that it's true, whether it be wrong or right.
Want an example? N-Rays. Look 'em up. The scientist who "discovered" N-Rays was dead set of finding them, "knowing" that they were there. His belief over-influenced his "discovery". as a result, when the day when everyone came to determine his scientific study, they were not surprised to find that N-Rays were all in his mind, never real.
(I thank Dark Matters on this :V)

A "personal experience" as well does not count for "concrete proof". If I were to say that I was walking along the forests of the northern west cost of the US and claim that I saw Bigfoot, and thus say that it is concrete proof that he exists, without any video or photographic evidence at all, would that TRULY make it "concrete proof"?
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legacyme3 : Leggy the proof that you have for God's Existence is the KJV bible. It is his word and every single bit of it is true. I for one cannot tell you that you are saved but if you have accepted Jesus as your own personal Lord and Savior in your own heart then you are saved and one your way to heaven. Once saved always saved. If you sin your still saved. No matter what you do you cannot get rid of the fact you are saved.
legacyme3 : Leggy the proof that you have for God's Existence is the KJV bible. It is his word and every single bit of it is true. I for one cannot tell you that you are saved but if you have accepted Jesus as your own personal Lord and Savior in your own heart then you are saved and one your way to heaven. Once saved always saved. If you sin your still saved. No matter what you do you cannot get rid of the fact you are saved.
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legacyme3 : First you don’t have to worry about any judgment from me. I respect everything you said. I hope you believe me when I say God does exist. I am someone who has talked on Vizzed many times about how difficult my teen years were and how I wasn’t making the right decisions and simply wasn’t thinking. Well about seven years ago I became sick. Although it was a case of high blood pressure I really believed that I was sick with something more serious and honestly thought that I wasn’t going to recover. I had been through so much nonsense and had hurt myself in some of my choices and had really screwed my life up, up to that point. Although I had made a few attempts to straighten myself out in the past I never really accomplished it.

While I was sick I had a life changing experience and I believe that it was God who gave me what amounted to a long overdue wake-up call. I will be honest with you there have been times since that experience seven years ago where I have been angry with God due to things not going so smoothly in my life or, losing people I was close to like family members. Although my faith has been shaken I never doubted his existence.

I will take it a step further. I was born disabled and my parents were told I would never walk. Although I admit that I don’t do what I should in regard to exercising and I have neglected myself to a big degree and although I may not do it perfectly I do walk.

I will also admit to you that I do not go to church and I do not consider myself to be deeply religious but I do know God exists. I am sort of in a process of trying to finish getting my life together finally. So far it hasn’t been easy because although I have grown up and matured a lot I still have my self-doubts as to whether or not I can do this. It also isn’t easy when you have to regularly deal with a series of stressful situations which may not directly involve you per say but instead may effect your family overall. I knew that when I came to the decision recently to attempt one more time to finish school that it wasn’t going to be easy and that I was more or less going to have to climb Mt. Everest to a degree because of having to re-learn stuff I have forgotten and learn things that I wasn’t even offered in school. This has had me full of self-doubt as to whether or not at almost 29 yrs old I am at a place in my life where I can finally beat this thing that has been a monkey on my back for almost fourteen years. I am relying on my faith to get me through this. I may not make it in this correspondence course that I’m in but I’m not going to give up this time. One way or another I will overcome this.

I will give you one more example four years ago one of my sisters was diagnosed with stage four breast cancer. She has two children and we were told that she had stage four cancer and there was no stage five. My sister has herself been through an awful lot and has had obstacles thrown at her and such. At the time, her and I weren’t speaking due to strained feelings within the family but I always loved my sister and always will. Not only did this experience allow me to move passed my issues with her which were really immaterial and make up with my sister but I also got to spend more time with my niece and nephew who I had only seen sporadically up to that point in a few years prior. I believe that again it was God opening my eyes and making me realize what was really important. Four years later my sister is still with us and is still fighting. There isn’t a day that goes by that I am not grateful for that and don’t thank god for keeping her with her kids and her husband.

Believe me when I say he does exist. I owe everything to him and I thank him for what he’s done for me and has continued to do for me even during times when I had anger toward him and wasn’t doing the right things. He could have easily turned a blind eye to me but he didn’t, he kept his hands on me. He’s made me realize that I didn’t like who I was and gave me the opportunity to change how my life was going. He also made it possible for my sister and I to make peace and I can honestly say had my sister died four years ago, and she’s had a few close calls, and we didn’t make peace with each other I would have never forgiven myself. He does exist my friend. I suggest that you do some research and familiarize yourself a little bit. God can help you, all you have to do is let him in.

I wish you the best of luck. God bless.
legacyme3 : First you don’t have to worry about any judgment from me. I respect everything you said. I hope you believe me when I say God does exist. I am someone who has talked on Vizzed many times about how difficult my teen years were and how I wasn’t making the right decisions and simply wasn’t thinking. Well about seven years ago I became sick. Although it was a case of high blood pressure I really believed that I was sick with something more serious and honestly thought that I wasn’t going to recover. I had been through so much nonsense and had hurt myself in some of my choices and had really screwed my life up, up to that point. Although I had made a few attempts to straighten myself out in the past I never really accomplished it.

While I was sick I had a life changing experience and I believe that it was God who gave me what amounted to a long overdue wake-up call. I will be honest with you there have been times since that experience seven years ago where I have been angry with God due to things not going so smoothly in my life or, losing people I was close to like family members. Although my faith has been shaken I never doubted his existence.

I will take it a step further. I was born disabled and my parents were told I would never walk. Although I admit that I don’t do what I should in regard to exercising and I have neglected myself to a big degree and although I may not do it perfectly I do walk.

I will also admit to you that I do not go to church and I do not consider myself to be deeply religious but I do know God exists. I am sort of in a process of trying to finish getting my life together finally. So far it hasn’t been easy because although I have grown up and matured a lot I still have my self-doubts as to whether or not I can do this. It also isn’t easy when you have to regularly deal with a series of stressful situations which may not directly involve you per say but instead may effect your family overall. I knew that when I came to the decision recently to attempt one more time to finish school that it wasn’t going to be easy and that I was more or less going to have to climb Mt. Everest to a degree because of having to re-learn stuff I have forgotten and learn things that I wasn’t even offered in school. This has had me full of self-doubt as to whether or not at almost 29 yrs old I am at a place in my life where I can finally beat this thing that has been a monkey on my back for almost fourteen years. I am relying on my faith to get me through this. I may not make it in this correspondence course that I’m in but I’m not going to give up this time. One way or another I will overcome this.

I will give you one more example four years ago one of my sisters was diagnosed with stage four breast cancer. She has two children and we were told that she had stage four cancer and there was no stage five. My sister has herself been through an awful lot and has had obstacles thrown at her and such. At the time, her and I weren’t speaking due to strained feelings within the family but I always loved my sister and always will. Not only did this experience allow me to move passed my issues with her which were really immaterial and make up with my sister but I also got to spend more time with my niece and nephew who I had only seen sporadically up to that point in a few years prior. I believe that again it was God opening my eyes and making me realize what was really important. Four years later my sister is still with us and is still fighting. There isn’t a day that goes by that I am not grateful for that and don’t thank god for keeping her with her kids and her husband.

Believe me when I say he does exist. I owe everything to him and I thank him for what he’s done for me and has continued to do for me even during times when I had anger toward him and wasn’t doing the right things. He could have easily turned a blind eye to me but he didn’t, he kept his hands on me. He’s made me realize that I didn’t like who I was and gave me the opportunity to change how my life was going. He also made it possible for my sister and I to make peace and I can honestly say had my sister died four years ago, and she’s had a few close calls, and we didn’t make peace with each other I would have never forgiven myself. He does exist my friend. I suggest that you do some research and familiarize yourself a little bit. God can help you, all you have to do is let him in.

I wish you the best of luck. God bless.
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bvd1022 :

First off, I'll thank you for providing one of the more intelligent posts in this thread. Most people are simply shooting out the word faith, and faith isn't the thing I'm looking for, I'm looking for some sort of evidence that can lead to the possibility of a god. Also, that story of yours is pretty impressive, and I don't doubt it's 100% true.

I won't dismiss what you've gone through, but after reading through, there's one question that keeps popping up.

How do you know it was because of God?

Don't you think it's entirely possible you and your sister simply willed yourself into the position you are now? A lot can be said of the human will. That part exists, and it isn't something that can be given to you. It's something you have to develop on your own, which you can't really attribute to God.
bvd1022 :

First off, I'll thank you for providing one of the more intelligent posts in this thread. Most people are simply shooting out the word faith, and faith isn't the thing I'm looking for, I'm looking for some sort of evidence that can lead to the possibility of a god. Also, that story of yours is pretty impressive, and I don't doubt it's 100% true.

I won't dismiss what you've gone through, but after reading through, there's one question that keeps popping up.

How do you know it was because of God?

Don't you think it's entirely possible you and your sister simply willed yourself into the position you are now? A lot can be said of the human will. That part exists, and it isn't something that can be given to you. It's something you have to develop on your own, which you can't really attribute to God.
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legacyme3 : You’re welcome… In my case as I said I wasn’t really happy with the direction my life was going and I was an idiot in my teen years this I freely admit to. There were a lot of things that were going on with me at the time. The main thing I guess was that my parents were separated for the majority of my teen years and that had more of a damaging effect on me then I thought for a long time. I went through so much because I was basically forced to be in the middle of my parents arguments and basically with the exception of when I was in school I was playing referee and peacemaker between them. It wasn’t a fun experience by any means. As a result when I could get away from that I would do so but at the same time I didn’t make the most rational decisions and like I said I was an idiot. Prior to this period of my life I rarely missed school, was an honor roll student and was relatively liked by everyone I came in contact with.

This continued through Jr. High even though due to my parents separation my dad and I moved back to where we were from originally and my mother stayed where we are now. I ended up coming back here for eighth grade and for the most part despite that I had to play peacemaker between them I did okay that year. It all changed after I entered high school. Within a year or so I went from honor student once nominated for national honors to a drop out and I’ll be honest it was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my life. I hung out mostly with the wrong people and as I said didn’t make the most rational decisions. Although I wrote sporadically I had no direction and was very resistant to any pleas of advice especially those given by my grandparents who are no longer with us. This is one thing I really regret because I should have listened to reason. Although my parents eventually got back together I had damaged myself.

I really devoted a lot of time to learning how to be a writer and really learn grammar and such, (It’s something I still do.) Although I was honing my craft so to speak I was still immature and I didn’t get the wake-up call I needed until I was in my early twenties. As I said I had an experience.

One night when I had my house to myself and no one was around I was sitting outside on my porch. It wasn’t a real good time as I was going through ups and downs related to my writing, I was struggling to find my way and I had just lost one of my uncles and my grandmother had cancer and eventually died a few months later if memory serves me. I can’t really say what came over me but I broke down, it could have been stress or it could have been something that had been building in me but I broke down. For some reason I felt this sensation on one of my shoulders and it honestly felt like someone had put their hand on me to calm me down. Although I took a lot of ribbing from a few friends about this I truly believe it was God telling me everything was going to be alright. It wasn’t long after my grandmother passed that I became sick with high BP. During that time and being very unsure of things and outright terrified of going to a doctor I relied on God to get me through it. It was also during this time that I started to realize the errors of my ways. I won’t sit here and tell you that it was an overnight thing because it wasn’t it took time for me to fully realize things and get refocused. I also tried to apologize to some people that I felt I had wronged. It doesn’t help that I have trouble remembering my teen years but I felt like I needed to try and make a mends. For the most part from what I can remember those I apologized to accepted my apology but it doesn’t change how guilty I felt and still feel in some ways. Simply put the person I was in my teens really to my early twenties wasn’t who I really am and want to be. I cannot tell you how much I would change if I could go back to that period in my life as the person I am now. Although it took me a long time I matured and in some ways I think that I wouldn’t be the person I am today had it not been for what I went through.

I also place the blame for what I went through squarely on me and not my parents. One thing I do wish is that I could have handled my stress a little better than I did back then. I think I wouldn’t have slid as bad as I did. I am grateful though that I got the wake-up call when I was in my twenties and not when I was in fifties or sixties. It is my hope that, that period of my life will not be what defines me but rather a chapter of what ends up being a good story so to speak. One thing I promised myself and God while I was sick was that if I did straighten up and got myself back on track I would try as best as I could to give back in some way even if it was as simple as offering advice to those who ask for it even though I would also like to donate to charity when I am financially stable enough to do so. I am not finished straightening up, I still have to finish school but I have come a long way from the screwed up kid I was. This is about redemption for me not just personally but also spiritually to a degree.

This is why you will never see me judge anyone because the way I think of things is if I were to judge anyone about anything that would make me a hypocrite and that is one thing I never want to be. I do know that I still have a lot of regret about my teen years and I just hope that there isn’t anyone that I treated badly back in my rough period that holds resentment toward me. I hope if there are any that they will understand that I wasn’t myself back then and that I have become a much better person and only want to do good and help people any way I can.

As far as what you asked about my sister and I well, we didn’t really speak much for a couple of years because of strained feelings within the family. It wasn’t a real enjoyable time because she was going through her own issues but didn’t want to come around. I don’t know why things went the way they did between her and I but from my perspective there was a lot of anger on my end in part because of how she was going about things at the time. When she got diagnosed it hurt all of us naturally but because of circumstances at the time she was around a lot more and as I said I was able to spend more time with my niece and nephew than I had in the few years prior to that. I don’t know if you’re familiar with this saying but I have come to believe in it. The lord works in mysterious ways. I believe that the circumstances she was in at the time basically made her come back to her family so to speak and as I said she was diagnosed as stage four and the fact that she’s still here four years later I consider a miracle.
Although I know there is still a possibility of losing my sister I am grateful for that. As I said she’s had a couple of close calls in the last four years, cancer has gone into remission, come back and gone into remission again at least twice, she’s also had surgeries and almost died. I truly believe it’s only by the grace of god that she’s survived all that. Some things can’t be explained in scientific terms or by mere visualization but I believe God has shown me on more than one occasion that he does exist.

I do think that eventually my sister and I would have conversed in some way but I think it happened the way it did because God knew that we needed to get passed our issues and make peace with each other. As I said the lord works in mysterious ways. Like I said before had she died four years ago and there was no communication at all between her and I as there wasn’t for a few years prior to that I would have never forgiven myself. I’m grateful that I had that chance. It didn’t matter what we were fighting about or who said what. I was just happy that we resolved everything.

I think it was part of maturing that has given me the outlook on things that it has. I admit that I still have my flaws and that I still haven’t felt as if I’ve redeemed myself. This is what I hope to accomplish eventually.


legacyme3 : You’re welcome… In my case as I said I wasn’t really happy with the direction my life was going and I was an idiot in my teen years this I freely admit to. There were a lot of things that were going on with me at the time. The main thing I guess was that my parents were separated for the majority of my teen years and that had more of a damaging effect on me then I thought for a long time. I went through so much because I was basically forced to be in the middle of my parents arguments and basically with the exception of when I was in school I was playing referee and peacemaker between them. It wasn’t a fun experience by any means. As a result when I could get away from that I would do so but at the same time I didn’t make the most rational decisions and like I said I was an idiot. Prior to this period of my life I rarely missed school, was an honor roll student and was relatively liked by everyone I came in contact with.

This continued through Jr. High even though due to my parents separation my dad and I moved back to where we were from originally and my mother stayed where we are now. I ended up coming back here for eighth grade and for the most part despite that I had to play peacemaker between them I did okay that year. It all changed after I entered high school. Within a year or so I went from honor student once nominated for national honors to a drop out and I’ll be honest it was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my life. I hung out mostly with the wrong people and as I said didn’t make the most rational decisions. Although I wrote sporadically I had no direction and was very resistant to any pleas of advice especially those given by my grandparents who are no longer with us. This is one thing I really regret because I should have listened to reason. Although my parents eventually got back together I had damaged myself.

I really devoted a lot of time to learning how to be a writer and really learn grammar and such, (It’s something I still do.) Although I was honing my craft so to speak I was still immature and I didn’t get the wake-up call I needed until I was in my early twenties. As I said I had an experience.

One night when I had my house to myself and no one was around I was sitting outside on my porch. It wasn’t a real good time as I was going through ups and downs related to my writing, I was struggling to find my way and I had just lost one of my uncles and my grandmother had cancer and eventually died a few months later if memory serves me. I can’t really say what came over me but I broke down, it could have been stress or it could have been something that had been building in me but I broke down. For some reason I felt this sensation on one of my shoulders and it honestly felt like someone had put their hand on me to calm me down. Although I took a lot of ribbing from a few friends about this I truly believe it was God telling me everything was going to be alright. It wasn’t long after my grandmother passed that I became sick with high BP. During that time and being very unsure of things and outright terrified of going to a doctor I relied on God to get me through it. It was also during this time that I started to realize the errors of my ways. I won’t sit here and tell you that it was an overnight thing because it wasn’t it took time for me to fully realize things and get refocused. I also tried to apologize to some people that I felt I had wronged. It doesn’t help that I have trouble remembering my teen years but I felt like I needed to try and make a mends. For the most part from what I can remember those I apologized to accepted my apology but it doesn’t change how guilty I felt and still feel in some ways. Simply put the person I was in my teens really to my early twenties wasn’t who I really am and want to be. I cannot tell you how much I would change if I could go back to that period in my life as the person I am now. Although it took me a long time I matured and in some ways I think that I wouldn’t be the person I am today had it not been for what I went through.

I also place the blame for what I went through squarely on me and not my parents. One thing I do wish is that I could have handled my stress a little better than I did back then. I think I wouldn’t have slid as bad as I did. I am grateful though that I got the wake-up call when I was in my twenties and not when I was in fifties or sixties. It is my hope that, that period of my life will not be what defines me but rather a chapter of what ends up being a good story so to speak. One thing I promised myself and God while I was sick was that if I did straighten up and got myself back on track I would try as best as I could to give back in some way even if it was as simple as offering advice to those who ask for it even though I would also like to donate to charity when I am financially stable enough to do so. I am not finished straightening up, I still have to finish school but I have come a long way from the screwed up kid I was. This is about redemption for me not just personally but also spiritually to a degree.

This is why you will never see me judge anyone because the way I think of things is if I were to judge anyone about anything that would make me a hypocrite and that is one thing I never want to be. I do know that I still have a lot of regret about my teen years and I just hope that there isn’t anyone that I treated badly back in my rough period that holds resentment toward me. I hope if there are any that they will understand that I wasn’t myself back then and that I have become a much better person and only want to do good and help people any way I can.

As far as what you asked about my sister and I well, we didn’t really speak much for a couple of years because of strained feelings within the family. It wasn’t a real enjoyable time because she was going through her own issues but didn’t want to come around. I don’t know why things went the way they did between her and I but from my perspective there was a lot of anger on my end in part because of how she was going about things at the time. When she got diagnosed it hurt all of us naturally but because of circumstances at the time she was around a lot more and as I said I was able to spend more time with my niece and nephew than I had in the few years prior to that. I don’t know if you’re familiar with this saying but I have come to believe in it. The lord works in mysterious ways. I believe that the circumstances she was in at the time basically made her come back to her family so to speak and as I said she was diagnosed as stage four and the fact that she’s still here four years later I consider a miracle.
Although I know there is still a possibility of losing my sister I am grateful for that. As I said she’s had a couple of close calls in the last four years, cancer has gone into remission, come back and gone into remission again at least twice, she’s also had surgeries and almost died. I truly believe it’s only by the grace of god that she’s survived all that. Some things can’t be explained in scientific terms or by mere visualization but I believe God has shown me on more than one occasion that he does exist.

I do think that eventually my sister and I would have conversed in some way but I think it happened the way it did because God knew that we needed to get passed our issues and make peace with each other. As I said the lord works in mysterious ways. Like I said before had she died four years ago and there was no communication at all between her and I as there wasn’t for a few years prior to that I would have never forgiven myself. I’m grateful that I had that chance. It didn’t matter what we were fighting about or who said what. I was just happy that we resolved everything.

I think it was part of maturing that has given me the outlook on things that it has. I admit that I still have my flaws and that I still haven’t felt as if I’ve redeemed myself. This is what I hope to accomplish eventually.


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(edited by bvd1022 on 10-17-12 07:01 AM)    

10-19-12 05:15 AM
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MegaRevolution1 : Mega i do think though depending on how bad it was depends on how commited he was. I believe God intervened. Also think about 9/11 with the towers falling. they should have tilted over but instead they collapsed almost like a hand was guiding them down.
MegaRevolution1 : Mega i do think though depending on how bad it was depends on how commited he was. I believe God intervened. Also think about 9/11 with the towers falling. they should have tilted over but instead they collapsed almost like a hand was guiding them down.
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InsaneGamer : Are you a natural idiot, or do you practice pretty hard? When a big plane crashes into a FRAGILE, TALL BUILDING, it collapses. Common sense, genius. And plus, by that logic, it only proves more how evil your stupid sky fairy (god) is.

This is why, if I did ever believe in this stuff, I'd ever only go to Satanism. It's the only tru answer if you want a belief in that story book stuff, Nya~.
InsaneGamer : Are you a natural idiot, or do you practice pretty hard? When a big plane crashes into a FRAGILE, TALL BUILDING, it collapses. Common sense, genius. And plus, by that logic, it only proves more how evil your stupid sky fairy (god) is.

This is why, if I did ever believe in this stuff, I'd ever only go to Satanism. It's the only tru answer if you want a belief in that story book stuff, Nya~.
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10-20-12 06:12 AM
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MegaRevolution1 : then your the idiot. If they were hit that high up by the planes they would have tipped over. You did not take into consideration the height of the building and how fast the planes were going. By the weight and speed of the planes hitting as high up as they did they should have tipped over.
MegaRevolution1 : then your the idiot. If they were hit that high up by the planes they would have tipped over. You did not take into consideration the height of the building and how fast the planes were going. By the weight and speed of the planes hitting as high up as they did they should have tipped over.
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InsaneGamer : No, you're wrong :l No matter what the case would have been, it would have ALWAYS crumbled down to the ground, not tip over. It's not a game of Jenga, and it's not "proof" your god exists, Nya~.
InsaneGamer : No, you're wrong :l No matter what the case would have been, it would have ALWAYS crumbled down to the ground, not tip over. It's not a game of Jenga, and it's not "proof" your god exists, Nya~.
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10-21-12 02:59 PM
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InsaneGamer : You're wrong. So wrong that it makes my eyes go into my sockets and scream loudly. Why did the building collapse?

1. The building wouldn't tip over. Unless it was hit with such a force that would be enough to uproot a several hundred to thousand ton building up from it's foundation to topple over dramatically that wouldn't happen. Buildings are heavy, and they are also anchored to the ground. Even if the plane was heavy, it certainly wasn't heavy enough to do that.

2. Jet fuel is a volatile substance. It exploded and produced a stream of hot, fast burning fire (and gases and such) that melted much of the core foundation. Thus, the building eventually collapsed on itself because the foundation gave way.


3. How does this even relate to the existance of god? It's kind of like saying that if I threw a ball and it fell gradually towards the ground, God's hand guided it. The twin towers incident still costed thousands of lives and millions of dollars. If god really guided it, wouldn't he have the mind to push it up?

The twin tower incident was nothing short of a national tragedy that spawned a war.
If god really wanted to intervene, he'd have the passengers all take over the planes and fly them safely to the ground.



This is another reason why I believe that god doesn't exist. If someone can actually provide a logical arguement that God exists, I'll consider it, but in the meantime this doesn't help me "believe" at all. 

InsaneGamer : You're wrong. So wrong that it makes my eyes go into my sockets and scream loudly. Why did the building collapse?

1. The building wouldn't tip over. Unless it was hit with such a force that would be enough to uproot a several hundred to thousand ton building up from it's foundation to topple over dramatically that wouldn't happen. Buildings are heavy, and they are also anchored to the ground. Even if the plane was heavy, it certainly wasn't heavy enough to do that.

2. Jet fuel is a volatile substance. It exploded and produced a stream of hot, fast burning fire (and gases and such) that melted much of the core foundation. Thus, the building eventually collapsed on itself because the foundation gave way.


3. How does this even relate to the existance of god? It's kind of like saying that if I threw a ball and it fell gradually towards the ground, God's hand guided it. The twin towers incident still costed thousands of lives and millions of dollars. If god really guided it, wouldn't he have the mind to push it up?

The twin tower incident was nothing short of a national tragedy that spawned a war.
If god really wanted to intervene, he'd have the passengers all take over the planes and fly them safely to the ground.



This is another reason why I believe that god doesn't exist. If someone can actually provide a logical arguement that God exists, I'll consider it, but in the meantime this doesn't help me "believe" at all. 
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10-22-12 04:17 AM
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MegaRevolution1:Uh yeah thats what happened.

TheNameWithNoNumbers : Concrete proof is your still breathing and having a beating heart. also the planes were heavy and fast enough to tip the twin towers.
MegaRevolution1:Uh yeah thats what happened.

TheNameWithNoNumbers : Concrete proof is your still breathing and having a beating heart. also the planes were heavy and fast enough to tip the twin towers.
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