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03-19-17 03:44 PM
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Christian bakery vs homosexuals.

 

03-19-17 03:44 PM
CPT Axis is Offline
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The biggest thing I hear from leftists is: 
"You're not a woman, you don't have a say in women's right!"
To which I
always respond: 
"If only you applied that type of thinking to the Christian bakery"

If the government is not allowed to regulate Women's rights, why is it allowed to regulate religious beliefs?
Is it perhaps because you only like the government when it helps you? 

It is my firm belief that homosexuals should have the right to shop wherever they want. However, it also goes the other way.
Business owners have the right to refuse service to whoever they want.

the Christian couple that refused service to the homosexuals were not out of line for rejecting service. They were well within their rights - protected by both Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech.

Freedom of Religion - to practice your belief and your faith without government involvement.
Freedom of speech - to make comments regarding any topic without government involvement.

They had to have told the homosexual couple they were refusing to serve them, hence Freedom of Speech violation. 
The biggest thing I hear from leftists is: 
"You're not a woman, you don't have a say in women's right!"
To which I
always respond: 
"If only you applied that type of thinking to the Christian bakery"

If the government is not allowed to regulate Women's rights, why is it allowed to regulate religious beliefs?
Is it perhaps because you only like the government when it helps you? 

It is my firm belief that homosexuals should have the right to shop wherever they want. However, it also goes the other way.
Business owners have the right to refuse service to whoever they want.

the Christian couple that refused service to the homosexuals were not out of line for rejecting service. They were well within their rights - protected by both Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech.

Freedom of Religion - to practice your belief and your faith without government involvement.
Freedom of speech - to make comments regarding any topic without government involvement.

They had to have told the homosexual couple they were refusing to serve them, hence Freedom of Speech violation. 
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03-19-17 04:13 PM
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The government doesn't have a problem with people practicing their religion and enjoying their religious beliefs... until commercial activity gets involved. Now that a business, which is taxed by the government, is in the middle of a question, the government is going to help themselves to 'solving the problem.'

It doesn't help all that much.

I see both sides of the situation and I'm a fan of people voting with their wallets.

Let everyone, and I mean everyone, know that a particular establishment doesn't do business with a certain group of people based on anything, religion, hair color, skin color, language, sexual orientation, and then don't go there.

If I knew a business near me didn't cater to homosexuals because of religious freedom, sure that's their right. But I will never set foot inside that place and I would actively encourage others to not go either. Not providing a good or service for a homosexual patron is, to me, the same as being a racist or biased against a group of people. I don't know why it matters since money isn't gay or straight but they're picking that hill to die on.

I hope the businesses that refuse business go under. But I think an active and educated public can take care of that problem. Government involvement is not required.

And anyone who seriously won't do business with gays because God said so, is stupid. God said love one another, not "refuse service." That's not love.

To me, Christians who are refusing service because they think that's the interpretation of the Bible are the same as Muslims who are blowing people up because they think that's the interpretation of their religious book.
The government doesn't have a problem with people practicing their religion and enjoying their religious beliefs... until commercial activity gets involved. Now that a business, which is taxed by the government, is in the middle of a question, the government is going to help themselves to 'solving the problem.'

It doesn't help all that much.

I see both sides of the situation and I'm a fan of people voting with their wallets.

Let everyone, and I mean everyone, know that a particular establishment doesn't do business with a certain group of people based on anything, religion, hair color, skin color, language, sexual orientation, and then don't go there.

If I knew a business near me didn't cater to homosexuals because of religious freedom, sure that's their right. But I will never set foot inside that place and I would actively encourage others to not go either. Not providing a good or service for a homosexual patron is, to me, the same as being a racist or biased against a group of people. I don't know why it matters since money isn't gay or straight but they're picking that hill to die on.

I hope the businesses that refuse business go under. But I think an active and educated public can take care of that problem. Government involvement is not required.

And anyone who seriously won't do business with gays because God said so, is stupid. God said love one another, not "refuse service." That's not love.

To me, Christians who are refusing service because they think that's the interpretation of the Bible are the same as Muslims who are blowing people up because they think that's the interpretation of their religious book.
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03-19-17 06:43 PM
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As much as I disagree with the refusal of service based on sexuality, if they turn them down, they are losing their own potential profit, so they should have a say about it. 

 As for the homosexual couple, it probably wasn't worth going there (for them) in the first place if they were going to be turned down for that.
As much as I disagree with the refusal of service based on sexuality, if they turn them down, they are losing their own potential profit, so they should have a say about it. 

 As for the homosexual couple, it probably wasn't worth going there (for them) in the first place if they were going to be turned down for that.
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(edited by RDay13 on 03-19-17 06:56 PM)    

03-19-17 07:31 PM
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You keep referring to liberals and democrats as 'leftists' as if it's some kind of cult. This is such an ignorant and obnoxious thing to say.
  
Anyway, yes while the Christian business owners do have the constitutional right to refuse service to anyone, that doesn't change the fact that it's a very bigoted, old fashioned, and politically incorrect thing to say. While the Christian couple were not out of line on a legal standpoint, they were out of line on a politically correct standpoint.
You keep referring to liberals and democrats as 'leftists' as if it's some kind of cult. This is such an ignorant and obnoxious thing to say.
  
Anyway, yes while the Christian business owners do have the constitutional right to refuse service to anyone, that doesn't change the fact that it's a very bigoted, old fashioned, and politically incorrect thing to say. While the Christian couple were not out of line on a legal standpoint, they were out of line on a politically correct standpoint.
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03-19-17 07:40 PM
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That place did go under. But should it have? They were well within their rights to refuse to make an order. Now I see it as one of two ways.
  • Make the order and ignore your beliefs for a one time order.
  • Refuse the order and continue with business.
Now,the question I must ask is,if they refuse to make a cake for the guy-guy couple,would it have been that hard to find another place to cater to them? I am sure they were not the only bakery in town or within driving distance. I think it was taken way too far and they ruined a person's life. Let that sink in for a minute. These two people ruined a person's life and livelihood over a freaking cake. Maybe I am a traditionalist,but at the same time,would it be that hard to look up another bakery that would do it?

I would cite an example that I used to use,but it is not appropriate.
That place did go under. But should it have? They were well within their rights to refuse to make an order. Now I see it as one of two ways.
  • Make the order and ignore your beliefs for a one time order.
  • Refuse the order and continue with business.
Now,the question I must ask is,if they refuse to make a cake for the guy-guy couple,would it have been that hard to find another place to cater to them? I am sure they were not the only bakery in town or within driving distance. I think it was taken way too far and they ruined a person's life. Let that sink in for a minute. These two people ruined a person's life and livelihood over a freaking cake. Maybe I am a traditionalist,but at the same time,would it be that hard to look up another bakery that would do it?

I would cite an example that I used to use,but it is not appropriate.
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03-19-17 10:13 PM
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Baritron : He's not calling Liberals and Democrats Leftists, he's making the distinction between Liberals/Democrats and the Leftist cult. Very big difference. On the other hand, we also have to make the distinction between Neo and Classical Liberalism, which are in almost no way related. Most of what is identified as Liberalism in this day and age, isn't.

To anyone who cares to answer, what is the exact incident that's being referenced here? The context of the refusal does matter, I think. For example... if it was an outright refusal of service to homosexual couples for all intents and purposes, that is extreme, but well within their rights. If it was for something specific like a homosexual marriage, that's something entirely different. Saying you refuse to serve gays is not the same thing as saying you don't support same-sex marriage and refuse to cater to one. It's similar to the Chik-Fil-A thing. They stated that they don't approve of homosexuality, but they not only serve, but even employ homosexuals at many locations.
Baritron : He's not calling Liberals and Democrats Leftists, he's making the distinction between Liberals/Democrats and the Leftist cult. Very big difference. On the other hand, we also have to make the distinction between Neo and Classical Liberalism, which are in almost no way related. Most of what is identified as Liberalism in this day and age, isn't.

To anyone who cares to answer, what is the exact incident that's being referenced here? The context of the refusal does matter, I think. For example... if it was an outright refusal of service to homosexual couples for all intents and purposes, that is extreme, but well within their rights. If it was for something specific like a homosexual marriage, that's something entirely different. Saying you refuse to serve gays is not the same thing as saying you don't support same-sex marriage and refuse to cater to one. It's similar to the Chik-Fil-A thing. They stated that they don't approve of homosexuality, but they not only serve, but even employ homosexuals at many locations.
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(edited by m0ssb3rg935 on 03-19-17 10:14 PM)    

03-19-17 10:56 PM
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I looked up the story on Google. The Bakery refused to provide service to a Lesbian couple, based on their religious beliefs against homosexual relationships and opposition to same-sex marriage. They were able to get over $300,000 from a Go Fund Me account but went out of business due to negative publicity and pressure from the LGBT community. They asserted their rights under the Constitution, while denying the couple's rights. This is the problem that I have. The Constitution is supposed to be for everyone, but somehow both sides seem to try to assert their rights while denying the rights of the other side. Then you add in what to me is extreme hatred and abuse, again from both sides that is spewed out and the situation gets disgusting and there are apparently no real winners. Both sides display the worst humanity has to offer.
I looked up the story on Google. The Bakery refused to provide service to a Lesbian couple, based on their religious beliefs against homosexual relationships and opposition to same-sex marriage. They were able to get over $300,000 from a Go Fund Me account but went out of business due to negative publicity and pressure from the LGBT community. They asserted their rights under the Constitution, while denying the couple's rights. This is the problem that I have. The Constitution is supposed to be for everyone, but somehow both sides seem to try to assert their rights while denying the rights of the other side. Then you add in what to me is extreme hatred and abuse, again from both sides that is spewed out and the situation gets disgusting and there are apparently no real winners. Both sides display the worst humanity has to offer.
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03-20-17 06:55 PM
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I think they should have to serve them if it's day to day service. After all if every food establishment place in your city refused to serve you then you'd starve to death. Serving them if they walk into the store has nothing to do with their sexual preferences(unless they want them to bake a gay themed cake). However, they shouldn't be made to do things like cater weddings which can clearly be said to be against their beliefs because you're forcing them to participate in a gay wedding. A wedding service is a luxury.
I think they should have to serve them if it's day to day service. After all if every food establishment place in your city refused to serve you then you'd starve to death. Serving them if they walk into the store has nothing to do with their sexual preferences(unless they want them to bake a gay themed cake). However, they shouldn't be made to do things like cater weddings which can clearly be said to be against their beliefs because you're forcing them to participate in a gay wedding. A wedding service is a luxury.
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