DarkHyren : " Even the dictionary definition states "the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes". Feminism is for WOMEN only"
This is wrong. That's the definition because it started during an era where women had zero rights. The definition has changed into "Equality for both sexes".
Except you know, real feminist can agree there are certain areas where males are discriminated or oppressed and fight to give them rights too. Real feminists actually care about both sexes.
The policies and history of feminism? If you truly knew that, you would know what feminism has done, for both sexes. Unless if you're *just* narrowing your search to third wave feminism, which isn't doing research.
Plus, females don't have more rights than males. There are areas where they are privileged (Domestic abuse cases, child costudy, etc..) but guess what? Feminism is trying to abolish that privilege as well.

Maguc : There you go again with that "real feminist" rubbish again. You imply that I'm uneducated but it's plain to see that it is you that has that failing.
I can give you lists upon lists of the rights and privileges that women have that men dont in western countries if you really like.
In fact here's one now. https://mensresistance.wordpress.com/female-privilege-checklist/
Don't go telling me "females dont have more rights then males" when you have no idea about how the western world works.

And no, I'm not just looking at "third wave feminism", I've done deep examinations on feminism in general, for example I know how feminism shamed men to go to war just to be able to vote and own land while women didnt have any of those responsibilities (a practice that was only just thought to be made equal in the US last year, much to the dismay of feminists). See "The white feather movement".

If FEMinism was for both genders it would be called humanitarianism or egalitarianism, yet both terms existed before feminism and have been fighting for true equality the whole time while feminism has only fought for women. If what you said was true then there's no need for feminism as there are already groups that stand for equality.

I have yet to see a feminist (other then Christina Hoff Sommers, but she isnt actually one, she just uses the label so that more people will listen to her, they dont listen to anti feminists since we "hate women" ~rolls eyes~) fight to remove female privilege, if anything most are fighting for MORE privilege, or didn't you see the "give me free stuff!" marches/rallies that happened worldwide. Entitled much?

Also moss is right, true equal rights advocates are egalitarians, the shelter example ghostbear gave is a false equivalency as egalitarians fight for both equal rights AND equitable rights, that does not mean there wouldnt be enough shelters for those that need them as egalitarianism is about providing equality and equity.
That means providing shelters for all that need them, not providing equal numbers of shelters and having some sit empty because there's no one that needs it and having some that are over capacity because there arent enough shelters.
If anything this is what is happening with the feminist approach to the homeless, there are equal numbers of womens shelters to mens because "equality" even though over 75% of homeless are men, so homeless women essentially have palaces to stay at while homeless men are crammed into a jail setting.

DarkHyren : kay there buddy boy you do you.
There's literally no point if you aren't going to see my side of the argument.

DarkHyren : You're saying Magic is uneducated for basically saying what feminism really means and accuse ghostbear of giving false information, yet you use wordpress as a reliable source... good one, sir.

xxAriaxx : I just grabbed the first link with that list I saw. The fact that you would rather argue about WHERE it came from rather then the actual CONTENTS of it proves your bias.
I could give you multiple links with the same content but the fact is it doesn't matter where what I cite comes from, if it goes against your BELIEFS you will ignore it, no matter how many FACTS are thrown at you.

Here's another, it even references Huffington post in the sources, and we all know how much feminists love that "news outlet".
https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-governance-feminism/white-female-privilege-and-the-domination-of-men/

DarkHyren : I didn't even express my beliefs in this thread even once, yet you're calling me bias... all I'm saying is WordPress isn't a reliable source.

As I said, I just grabbed the first link that came up, and the reason I said that you have a bias is because you'd rather address the website hosting the content then the content itself and heavily implied that I don't know what I'm talking about despite providing multiple sources and quotes throughout this thread.
The fact that you'd throw out everything I've written based on ONE link to a website that you think "isn't reliable" shows it, it's nit picking over something petty, it would be the same if you provided a link to the guardian or huffington post that had actual verifiable facts (for once) and I said "everything you say is wrong because you quoted a website I dont like".

If I've misunderstood your intent I apologize, but saying someone is uneducated and provides false information based off a link to one website when all the other information has been valid speaks volumes about the intent, especially when it's conveyed in the attitude you used

Maguc : so essentially what I get from "there's no point if you're not going to see my side" is "I can't think of an actual response, so I'm just going to claim that it's not worth my time." If you want to convince people that your cause is the way to go, you can't just run from confrontation with your tail between your legs. You need to come up with a proper counterargument based on cold hard facts if you want to change any minds. If you can't defend your own views, then why should anyone else take them seriously?

As for the rest of you... this thread is a good example of why I don't come here much anymore. So many people that just grab the first thing that agrees with them, and then claim that they're right. There's much more to research and developing an actual viewpoint on a subject than that. If you're liberal, don't just go to liberal sites; go to conservative ones. If you're conservative, go to liberal sites as well. The problem with so many people is that they just want to feel like they're in the right or feel like they're knowledgable without having to actually put any effort into educating themselves. You don't grow as a person by surrounding yourself only with those that agree with you. That's how you stagnate. That's how echo chambers are formed. If you can't handle dissenting opinions without shutting down, that's a clear sign you still have growing to do.

Saltyyyy

DarkHyren :
Maguc :

At this point, I don't think I support Feminism, Egalitarianism or any other ism. So far, All I've seen from everyone replying here is that they all agree on the issues and are all arguing about the labels and banners. Regardless of the issues, Feminism, Egalitarianism, Meninism, this and that ism, etc. are all counterproductive and divisive in the way that they cause arguments over the name and what it actually represents instead of accomplishing a common goal.

RDay13 :
I understand that the goal of feminism is women to be treated the same as men, I was just applying a fact that women have more freedom in the US than many other countries.

DarkHyren : You are misunderstanding me. Don't tell me i'm uneducated when i am middle eastern. In countries like Morocco sharia law is official but women aren't "slaves" like you think they are.

I'm Egyptian and yeah women and men aren't equal but it's not as bad as you think it is.

Rasenganfan2 : I can see how you got that from my replies, believe me. That should be a judgement on myself, not feminism. The reason I said that is he didn't even try to see my points? He just kept repeating himself and mocking my view points. That's not exactly "Seeing my sides of the thing"

Also, for your second part, that's wonderfully written. It's harsh, but it's honestly the truth, even for people like me. I agree with it a lot, even if I am guilty of the same thing.

Just today, I saw an article from a few weeks ago about Emma Watson getting shamed just for showing underboob. People basically went "Oh Emma says she's a feminist, but she's showing tits. #Hypocrite"

Funny thing is, the people who say exactly that are the hypocrites. This literally just led me make a tweet:

"Funny how people who claim to be feminists are just f***ing dumbasses."

Feminism means to give women equal rights with men. Unfortunately, some women see the term feminism and claim they are one, only to prove themselves to be completely idiotic and hypocritical. Even sadder is that I have seen a few users on here before who actually believe feminism = what those kinds of people are.

"women are superior to men"

"women deserve better treatment and don't need any male assistance"

"women must always look modest"

"women deserve all the money"

Those kind of people just make me want to cringe. They took a perfectly good term with pure intentions and destroyed it with their selfish needs :/

And so, this thread exists. Asking for opinions. An individual who once made a review about Super Mario World, touched on the topic of stereotypes before, and who quit Vizzed for a short period when he was a dumb 14 year old and believed an infomercial and decided to POST about it arrives on the scene. He sees the posts made thus far.

Here is the most extensive summary on my thoughts of this topic.

DarkHyren : https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

"the theory of the political, economic and social equality of the sexes" is the first given definition. While it is true that feminism has historically been about women's rights it's because women have been at a clear disadvantage and still are in many parts of the world. Feminism today however can deal with both men's and women's issues. It has become more about the gender roles and the consequences that has for both sexes. Incidentally this is why you can't really compare it to egalitarianism which just talks about equality in general without really bringing up gender inequality or gender roles.

Yes there are feminists who view gender inequality as strictly a women's issue their presence is greatly exaggerated. If you were to ask most people who identify as feminists if they believe gender inequality to strictly affect women the vast majority would say no. In either case as long as you advocate gender equality through the emphasis on gender roles you could still be considered a feminist. Feminism is not one unitary movement, there can exist disagreement within it in terms of how each sex is affected and how we should go about dealing with these issues. While you could question if the word itself should still be used, why does that really matter if the message behind it is the same? Most of the debate seems to center around the term itself and the label of feminist which is honestly just a petty thing to complain about since that really holds no relevance to the matter at hand. The discussion should be about the ideas they represent.

On another note, people are criticizing you for using wordpress as a source since it gives the impression that you don't use source criticism since there is practically no guarantee that anything written on there is true. When you look at it it's clearly a very biased source in terms of the whole idea of "female privilege checklist" which in itself doesn't give any sources for its statements thus it is very much a valid critique to make. Even if it's as you say that you just picked the first source you could find, that doesn't really seem like someone who is willing to hold an actual discussion. That shows that you're basing your standpoint on preconceived notions and only using whatever sources that support your claim, and then ignoring the other side of the argument. That does not give off the impression that you've thought particularly deeply about the subject or have ever really considered other viewpoints.

If you want people to take your points seriously provide an actual first hand and credible source that directly supports your statements in stead of just linking them to a biased account and telling them to look up the validity themselves.

If it's defined as "the movement towards the legal equality of men and women", then I am a feminist myself. Although it should really be called "humanism" - we are all humans, divided by genes - I support the feminism up to about 60 years ago, when women still lacked legal equality.

But what feminism has become in the 21st century is nothing more than misandry. While I hope that what I read is only from a (very) small minority, the most vocal feminists don't seek equality; they seek a gynarchy like in Cartman's dream of Mars in the previous South Park season. You are either with them or against them - and the latter group is formed of men and women who do not accept their collectivist ideas.

Interestingly enough, the vocal feminists I denounce are usually prompt to denounce any "micro" aggression and "the patriarchy", but remain quite silent when it comes to denounce REAL oppression happening in countries like Saudi Arabia, when women are second-class citizens with fewer rights than boys.

Feminism? I´m only OK with it if the Feminists are Equal ones. Equal as in ´´We want ourselves and men to be just as equal as eachother.´´. I have nothing against them, they have a good reason to do what they´re doing.

What I´m NOT OK with are the Dominant Feminists. The kind of Feminists who boss men around, call them names, and esentially making some sort of Gender race out of the whole thing. They remind me of a specific group with a specific ideology...

Zlinqx : Really late reply, but...

One of the reasons labels are argued is because the title/label represents the movement or group, whether it should or not. If a militant, very vocal minority manages to steal the spotlight and corrupt the image, then that name is associated with that crowd, and I'd argue that it's the silent majority's fault for being silent. Just like with militant Islam, if the reasonable people are unwilling to denounce and work against people who would turn everything they stand for on it's head, then they don't have anything to complain about.

Stupid question really, but how about your thoughts on machoism?