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Goku vs Superman
Mostly Post-Crisis,Pre-Crisis,& SPOM will be compared to Goku
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05-12-16 01:19 PM
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Goku vs Superman

 

05-12-16 01:19 PM
Supermatt6534 is Offline
| ID: 1269464 | 2124 Words

Supermatt6534
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This is an updated,improved,& expanded version from the last one I did of this fight.


Lifting strength does not impact how hard you punch.
Don't believe me? Look here, it even applies to humans.

http://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-training/boxing-workouts/why-lifting-weights-wont-increase-punching-power

Travel speed =/= combat speed,even the comics say this.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111183084/4023525-5657008950-35a7p.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/2045848-wonder_woman_v_superman_1.jpg

For Post-Crisis:















Superman's speed, how fast is post crisis Superman










































Superman Punch Wonder Woman from the Sun - speed feat
















Superman Last Son - Sun eater feat - 50 x Supernova










































Durability feat - Superman Tank Planet collision










































Mageddon feat - Superman's strenght and durability










































Superman world shattering punch










































Superman speed feat - escaping from black hole










































Superman's Infinite Mass Punch - how powerfull is






























https://plus.google.com/u/0/100066304647727037914/posts/KxihcBkaqvF
Keep in mind the supernova feat was him taking a fraction of a supernova.

For Pre-Crisis(more on him towards the bottom):
Superman even got stunned by a fraction of a supernova.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/74629/1398557-superman24303xt8.jpg
http://therec-room.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/feats-number-7-b.jpg
This is also the best I've seen him do without being amped up:
http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120228104058/marvel_dc/images/c/c9/Anti-Monitor_0007.jpg

About Superman Prime One Million :

They say his speed is













infinite --> false: he couldn't save Atom's dimension because things













happened too fast even for him (literally stated by Superman himself).

- They say he destroyed the universal threat Solaris --> false: yes, he defeated him, but Solaris

























was already nearly killed by Superman One Million (Kal Kent); he also used the GL in order to do this feat. Not very impressive.

- They













say he created a universe --> LOL false: in













fact he simply pulled Atom to a different universe through the universal













gate and then said
















"Welcome to my Universe".

- They say he has 5-D Imp powers and he













is omnipotent --> false: the 5-D Imps entered













the Superman dynasty after Superman has already existed; for the same













reason he needed the powers of a 5-D Imp Superman (Lzyxm Ltpkz) in order













to bring back Lois (not to mention that he also needed her DNA,













supplied by Kyle Rayner, which makes the feat even less impressive).

Also, nothing on panel states he isn't affected anymore by magic and Kryptonite. Omnipotent def not

- They say he recreated Krypton --> false: Hourman with the Worgolog did it.

- They say he was the 2nd most powerful being in DC, only behind the Presence --> false: probably a fanmade statement.

-













They say he reached the Source Wall --> false: Superman only says he













reached the edge of the Multiverse, the Source













Wall was never specifically mentioned and he came back without answers













to his questions.

False information on Superman prime 1 million
















Prime is just a version of Superman with a large boost from sitting in













the sun for 15,000 years. Much like Goku going Super Saiyan, if we can













establish a baseline as well as the modifier for how much of a boost the













transformation gives we can get a good estimate of actual capabilities.















Since Prime has NO combat feats, upscaling base Superman is about the only way we can get this sorted. I posted above:
"Previously













a 15 minute dip made him around 3x as strong, and 15,000 years of













relaxing (which would be very very dull honestly) should be around a













1,577,847,000x boost then"

Thought Robot/Cosmic Armor Superman:
https://plus.google.com/102683655307828907556/posts/Pze7P6k5Cyd

https://plus.google.com/102683655307828907556/posts/6rC4nXqVWNV

More for Superman:
https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/9FmPqwHcypP
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/HeHkLKT8TPx


For DBZ:
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/8Po9agR8Lwo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDoKIm3Xquk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5CTKZIMgDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTjCIZXxvoo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfpfmLYZf_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34szXr-6M6o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGhdBaNekmM
https://plus.google.com/100710881237554392560/posts/4F1fTykpTAs
http://www.screwattack.com/news/cell-solar-system-buster-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD872yk1_6w
http://www.saiyanisland.com/2014/05/akira-toriyama-reveals/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdLpKXk1VTk
Sources:
http://magikarp46.com/dragonball/guid...

for quotes on Universe and kaioshin realm.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewt...

for quotes on Universe and kaioshin realm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S15Kf...

"No, the entire galaxy will cease to be"

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/03/...

"...he must not anger Birusu, lest he destroy not only the Earth, but the entire galaxy."

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translation...

"Who was it that sealed the Elder Kaiōshin away in the Z Sword?"
"The













Kaiōshin (who create













planets) and the Gods of Destruction (who destroy them) have never













gotten along that well, but once every 1,000 years they













go to each other’s realms













and hold a coordination meeting. At this time, they got into an argument













over some trifling thing, and a certain short-tempered God of













Destruction sealed Elder Kaiōshin away inside a sword. Naturally, it













wouldn’t have been proper for him to destroy the Kaiōshin Realm itself.













By the way, that God of Destruction was Beerus."


Going














by this,SSjG should be













universal at the very least.



Goku can also seal beings as well(which can even work on those much stronger than him as the technique worked for Mutaito against King Piccolo): https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/XybGQPSjiW9

 Goku punched through King Kai's planet(this can still be applied to the Toyotaro timeline).
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114283/3146598-goku+punch+planet.jpg

"a friend of mine made ​​a calculation taking into account other factors to measure the durability of the planet King Kai.

I'll show you the calcs.

The first calculation is figuring out the mass of the planet using gravity and radius since those are the two things we know.

The next step is Volume, using the radius.

And the third is density using the mass and volume we calced.

I also have links to a few calculators/convertors I checked the answers on.

Rearanged gravity formula to calculate mass instead (had to do short hand got formula from Wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_gravity

g = m/r^2

m = r^2 x g

Volume formula

V = (4/3) × pi × r^3

Density Formula

P = M/V

*Very good overall calculator

http://web2.0calc.com/

cm/g to m/kg calculator

http://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-density-from-gpercm3-to-kgperm3.html

Density calculator

http://www.smartconversion.com/unit_calculation/Density_calculator.aspx

Volume calculator

http://www.basic-mathematics.com/volume-of-a-sphere-calculator.html

Here's the actual calcs

g = m/r^2

m = r^2 x g

m = 0.0000156961230576^2 x 10

m = 0.0000000024636827904 earth masses

Earths mass = 5.97219 × 10^24 kilograms

5.97219 × 10^24 X 0.0000000024636827904 = 14,713,581,723,998,976

m = 14,713,581,723,998,976 kg

This considers King Kai's planet as 100m radius and 10X gravity.

The small number is the size of King Kai's planets radius in relation to Earths.

volume of a sphere is V = (4/3) × pi × r^3

V = (4/3) × pi × 100m^3 = 4188790.2047863905m^3

This is using King Kai's planet as 100m radius.

Knowing the mass and Volume we can get density.

P = M/V

P = 14713581723998976kg / 4188790.2047863905m^3

P = 3.512608892.9415128417291527 X 10^9 kg/m^3

Density













of a white dwarf star: "The













average density of matter in a white dwarf must therefore be, very













roughly, 1,000,000 times greater than the average density of the Sun, or













approximately 10^6 g/cm3." Which translates to 10^9 kg/m^3. So in other













words it is over 3.5 times as













dense as a white dwarf star.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_dwarf "

Keep













in mind this isn't the limit of how hard Goku can punch before becoming













a god.He should have solar system+ level punches by scaling.

Fat Buu was capable of destroying earth with his breath alone Babidi had too warn him not to breath to hard or he would
http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/214/39-012.0/compressed/391201.jpg
http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/214/39-012.0/compressed/391203.jpg
not to mention Frieza or Cold could had destroyed earth with a simple blast
http://imageshack.com/f/35/friezadestryongwith1bla.jpg
Hell,Recoome deflected Gohan's attack with his breath,& that blast was planet+ level at least.
http://xreader.net/Dragon-Ball/277#11

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/271089-goku_blocks_trunks_super.gif
"Let's













determine the force behind













Trunks attacks first. He easily sliced Frieza (who already had HIGH













planet durability. Then had his stats increased with the enhanced













cybernetics) in half. So we're looking at a being who literally lived













through a planet + spirit bomb, being chopped in half, getting hit by a













planet busting Angry Kamehameha, then the explosion of planet Namek,













then drifting in space with no food/water for













months, get chopped in half













like a hot knife through butter by trunks and his sword. With all this













said. I can honestly/legitimately claim that trunks can swing his sword













hard enough to destroy earth 100x over. (And even that is low balling.)













yet this 100x earth busting attack. Can't even damage Goku's finger.













Which according to the brilliant math of reviewer03, only possesses













1/1000th of Goku's real power.had originally calculated Goku to be able













to tear planets apart with full power punches but now I see that all it













takes is a simple poke from














his finger....

And DC enigmas STILL HAVE THE NERVE to claim that DBZ isn't a ridiculously OP show. "

Goku can punch out universes:
 https://plus.google.com/111360070266915769819/posts/Zx2Ji9xBAh1

https://plus.google.com/103671898476907153786/posts/Zy4fEAhgxxB

Keep in he kept this power in SSj,with base being a 50th of what he was when fighting Beerus,& he trained with Vegeta under Whis & even went into the time chamber with Vegeta(not to mention the zenkais that came after).
https://plus.google.com/108745336952236894636/posts/25rTEkE3vLr

"Goku black Was already 400 x stronger than Goku in the last arc, and




that is a fact because Trunk Stated Goku black was on par if not




slightly stronger than SSj3 Goku while in his base.

Goku black was current Goku who had his Bodies Switched by Zamasu and Went to the future and fought Trunk for a year.

so...it's




a much stronger Goku, Goku and Vegeta both Surpassed Black in episode




63 indicating that they got at least 400 x stronger in order for vegeta




and Goku to bully him.

also, Before those power ups Black Stated Goku and vegeta where fodder to him and that he could kill them any time he wanted to."

  -    Ragnarok423

This is backed up by the fact that Black could compete against SSj2 Goku using his base:
Image result for goku vs black

Black became much stronger than this later.

DBZ characters are massively faster than light(mftl).
For those who doubt light speed is ever stated(at 10 minutes in)

Dragon Ball Episode 140 English Dubbed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykh9joYnKGg

http://www.comicvine.com/dragon-balls/4055-46445/forums/finally-dbz-time-reaction-has-minimum-quantificati-754608/

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243021-kid_goku_laser_dodges_1_super.gif

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243018-kid_goku_aser_dodges_2_super.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149746/3274855-3245560-catch%2Bdragon-ball.jpg

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243009-goku_8_arms_super.gif

http://s103.photobucket.com/user/kinasin/media/250661-goku_dodges_taiyoken1_super.jpg.html

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114806/3071780-8612189208-25066.jpg

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/250664-goku_dodges_taiyoken_3_super.jpg

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/576/304833-225121_picmoon1_super.jpg

Shortly before,Raditz dodged a faster blast
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140518175200/ultradragonball/images/thumb/8/80/Light_of_Death.jpg/185px-Light_of_Death.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243939-radditz_speed4_super.jpg

Speed rises with power:
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/UYQZEFSmfJJ

Goku catches Beerus clinging to Whis,who is moving at speeds great enough to cross hundreds of billions of light years in a matter of minutes:
https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/QwGn5p8Nqxg

Speed calculation for the fight with Goku & Beerus:
 https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/KhqxQuFX49H



Skill:
Goku adapted to Roshi & came up with a fighting style to counter him.
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i009.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i010.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i011.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i012.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i013.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i014.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i015.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i016.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s002.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s003.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s004.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s005.jpg





Gotenks warped reality in the Buu Saga:
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/awwuCMp7VKB

Copy Vegeta stomped him in base form.
Image result for copy vegeta vs gotenks

Goku matched Copy Vegeta:





Goku resists hax:






Ki allows heat resistance:
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/XqkqyEEA2nX

Ki even produces heat, like other forms of energy.

http://www.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/209/14

http://www.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/209/15

We see gohan use ki to start up the fire to cook the meat

Plus in dbz the stronger you are the stronger your ki becomes.





Debunking Goku downplay:
Goku, along with other saiyans, have been shown to be able to survive in space a considerable amount of time:
https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/PNcKVUMbDFs

Earth's core could not kill Goku.
https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/QNYfCA4NXAS

https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/hdAfamyTNDd

Goku even teleports back without the suit, so he took it off down there & was fine.


Goku could clearly lift more than 40 tons prior to becoming a god.

Goku is not weak to lasers.
https://plus.google.com/112546901777971778992/posts/UDGahLmBxB8





DBZ filler AKA the anime is canon:

“Some













of the filler most fans complain about as being non-canon material was













actually Toriyama’s idea.”-from Kanzenshuu. “Toriyama: Dragon Ball, it’s













the anime and the manga”.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/production/toriyama/
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/1226/422453-animeme4_super.jpg
Translation for the photo.
"12:













From time to time, il would happen that people whom I didn’t even know













were approaching me about the anime. Things were often said like: “Oh













jeeze, between the manga and the anime, you must never take any time to













let yourself breathe!". In reality, I had hardly worked at all on the













anime, I had put confidence in my collaborators. I had enough to do just













with the manga. I didn’t want to work myself to death, you know...
Toriyama: I want to live until I’m 100 years old!
13:













For example, drawing an image of a movement in a manga is relatively













simple, but to animate this image, you had to decompose the movement and













draw all the intermediary movements. That demands a colossal amount of













work. (Ok, the example of Kame-sennin might not be the most













appropriate...)
14: Of course, those who have read Dragon Ball have













noticed that certain stories which are found in the anime didn’t existed













in the manga.
Oolong: What’s this? I never saw that in the manga....
ENstraight
As













one adventure in the manga corresponds to about 10 minutes of













animation, and since one episode comprises on average 30 minutes, the









entire series of Dragon Ball would have passed by very quickly. The team









of animators therefore had to insert some original stories. I admire what they have done, that’s a hell of a job!
Toriyama: Dragon Ball, it’s the anime and the manga!"


The battle:
Superman VS Goku 2 Death Battle Review - YouTube (debunking Screw Attack)

Superman vs Goku: An Objective Look - YouTube (GT vs Post-Crisis)

April 13, 2014 (Pre-Crisis vs Composite Movie Goku/Pre-God Goku)

The original post(posted by me):
https://plus.google.com/b/110233506537878589617/110233506537878589617/posts/7pWphQsgw6p?pageId=110233506537878589617
Also on:
Goku vs Superman

SSjGSSj/SSjB vs Superman Prime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNWWs8GI24I&feature=autoshare
 
You can even see the full context of the comics here:
http://readcomiconline.to/


Image upload: 900x506 totaling 233 KB's.
This is an updated,improved,& expanded version from the last one I did of this fight.


Lifting strength does not impact how hard you punch.
Don't believe me? Look here, it even applies to humans.

http://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-training/boxing-workouts/why-lifting-weights-wont-increase-punching-power

Travel speed =/= combat speed,even the comics say this.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111183084/4023525-5657008950-35a7p.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/2045848-wonder_woman_v_superman_1.jpg

For Post-Crisis:















Superman's speed, how fast is post crisis Superman










































Superman Punch Wonder Woman from the Sun - speed feat
















Superman Last Son - Sun eater feat - 50 x Supernova










































Durability feat - Superman Tank Planet collision










































Mageddon feat - Superman's strenght and durability










































Superman world shattering punch










































Superman speed feat - escaping from black hole










































Superman's Infinite Mass Punch - how powerfull is






























https://plus.google.com/u/0/100066304647727037914/posts/KxihcBkaqvF
Keep in mind the supernova feat was him taking a fraction of a supernova.

For Pre-Crisis(more on him towards the bottom):
Superman even got stunned by a fraction of a supernova.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/74629/1398557-superman24303xt8.jpg
http://therec-room.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/feats-number-7-b.jpg
This is also the best I've seen him do without being amped up:
http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120228104058/marvel_dc/images/c/c9/Anti-Monitor_0007.jpg

About Superman Prime One Million :

They say his speed is













infinite --> false: he couldn't save Atom's dimension because things













happened too fast even for him (literally stated by Superman himself).

- They say he destroyed the universal threat Solaris --> false: yes, he defeated him, but Solaris

























was already nearly killed by Superman One Million (Kal Kent); he also used the GL in order to do this feat. Not very impressive.

- They













say he created a universe --> LOL false: in













fact he simply pulled Atom to a different universe through the universal













gate and then said
















"Welcome to my Universe".

- They say he has 5-D Imp powers and he













is omnipotent --> false: the 5-D Imps entered













the Superman dynasty after Superman has already existed; for the same













reason he needed the powers of a 5-D Imp Superman (Lzyxm Ltpkz) in order













to bring back Lois (not to mention that he also needed her DNA,













supplied by Kyle Rayner, which makes the feat even less impressive).

Also, nothing on panel states he isn't affected anymore by magic and Kryptonite. Omnipotent def not

- They say he recreated Krypton --> false: Hourman with the Worgolog did it.

- They say he was the 2nd most powerful being in DC, only behind the Presence --> false: probably a fanmade statement.

-













They say he reached the Source Wall --> false: Superman only says he













reached the edge of the Multiverse, the Source













Wall was never specifically mentioned and he came back without answers













to his questions.

False information on Superman prime 1 million
















Prime is just a version of Superman with a large boost from sitting in













the sun for 15,000 years. Much like Goku going Super Saiyan, if we can













establish a baseline as well as the modifier for how much of a boost the













transformation gives we can get a good estimate of actual capabilities.















Since Prime has NO combat feats, upscaling base Superman is about the only way we can get this sorted. I posted above:
"Previously













a 15 minute dip made him around 3x as strong, and 15,000 years of













relaxing (which would be very very dull honestly) should be around a













1,577,847,000x boost then"

Thought Robot/Cosmic Armor Superman:
https://plus.google.com/102683655307828907556/posts/Pze7P6k5Cyd

https://plus.google.com/102683655307828907556/posts/6rC4nXqVWNV

More for Superman:
https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/9FmPqwHcypP
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/HeHkLKT8TPx


For DBZ:
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/8Po9agR8Lwo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDoKIm3Xquk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5CTKZIMgDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTjCIZXxvoo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfpfmLYZf_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34szXr-6M6o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGhdBaNekmM
https://plus.google.com/100710881237554392560/posts/4F1fTykpTAs
http://www.screwattack.com/news/cell-solar-system-buster-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD872yk1_6w
http://www.saiyanisland.com/2014/05/akira-toriyama-reveals/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdLpKXk1VTk
Sources:
http://magikarp46.com/dragonball/guid...

for quotes on Universe and kaioshin realm.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewt...

for quotes on Universe and kaioshin realm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S15Kf...

"No, the entire galaxy will cease to be"

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/03/...

"...he must not anger Birusu, lest he destroy not only the Earth, but the entire galaxy."

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translation...

"Who was it that sealed the Elder Kaiōshin away in the Z Sword?"
"The













Kaiōshin (who create













planets) and the Gods of Destruction (who destroy them) have never













gotten along that well, but once every 1,000 years they













go to each other’s realms













and hold a coordination meeting. At this time, they got into an argument













over some trifling thing, and a certain short-tempered God of













Destruction sealed Elder Kaiōshin away inside a sword. Naturally, it













wouldn’t have been proper for him to destroy the Kaiōshin Realm itself.













By the way, that God of Destruction was Beerus."


Going














by this,SSjG should be













universal at the very least.



Goku can also seal beings as well(which can even work on those much stronger than him as the technique worked for Mutaito against King Piccolo): https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/XybGQPSjiW9

 Goku punched through King Kai's planet(this can still be applied to the Toyotaro timeline).
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114283/3146598-goku+punch+planet.jpg

"a friend of mine made ​​a calculation taking into account other factors to measure the durability of the planet King Kai.

I'll show you the calcs.

The first calculation is figuring out the mass of the planet using gravity and radius since those are the two things we know.

The next step is Volume, using the radius.

And the third is density using the mass and volume we calced.

I also have links to a few calculators/convertors I checked the answers on.

Rearanged gravity formula to calculate mass instead (had to do short hand got formula from Wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_gravity

g = m/r^2

m = r^2 x g

Volume formula

V = (4/3) × pi × r^3

Density Formula

P = M/V

*Very good overall calculator

http://web2.0calc.com/

cm/g to m/kg calculator

http://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-density-from-gpercm3-to-kgperm3.html

Density calculator

http://www.smartconversion.com/unit_calculation/Density_calculator.aspx

Volume calculator

http://www.basic-mathematics.com/volume-of-a-sphere-calculator.html

Here's the actual calcs

g = m/r^2

m = r^2 x g

m = 0.0000156961230576^2 x 10

m = 0.0000000024636827904 earth masses

Earths mass = 5.97219 × 10^24 kilograms

5.97219 × 10^24 X 0.0000000024636827904 = 14,713,581,723,998,976

m = 14,713,581,723,998,976 kg

This considers King Kai's planet as 100m radius and 10X gravity.

The small number is the size of King Kai's planets radius in relation to Earths.

volume of a sphere is V = (4/3) × pi × r^3

V = (4/3) × pi × 100m^3 = 4188790.2047863905m^3

This is using King Kai's planet as 100m radius.

Knowing the mass and Volume we can get density.

P = M/V

P = 14713581723998976kg / 4188790.2047863905m^3

P = 3.512608892.9415128417291527 X 10^9 kg/m^3

Density













of a white dwarf star: "The













average density of matter in a white dwarf must therefore be, very













roughly, 1,000,000 times greater than the average density of the Sun, or













approximately 10^6 g/cm3." Which translates to 10^9 kg/m^3. So in other













words it is over 3.5 times as













dense as a white dwarf star.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_dwarf "

Keep













in mind this isn't the limit of how hard Goku can punch before becoming













a god.He should have solar system+ level punches by scaling.

Fat Buu was capable of destroying earth with his breath alone Babidi had too warn him not to breath to hard or he would
http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/214/39-012.0/compressed/391201.jpg
http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/214/39-012.0/compressed/391203.jpg
not to mention Frieza or Cold could had destroyed earth with a simple blast
http://imageshack.com/f/35/friezadestryongwith1bla.jpg
Hell,Recoome deflected Gohan's attack with his breath,& that blast was planet+ level at least.
http://xreader.net/Dragon-Ball/277#11

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/271089-goku_blocks_trunks_super.gif
"Let's













determine the force behind













Trunks attacks first. He easily sliced Frieza (who already had HIGH













planet durability. Then had his stats increased with the enhanced













cybernetics) in half. So we're looking at a being who literally lived













through a planet + spirit bomb, being chopped in half, getting hit by a













planet busting Angry Kamehameha, then the explosion of planet Namek,













then drifting in space with no food/water for













months, get chopped in half













like a hot knife through butter by trunks and his sword. With all this













said. I can honestly/legitimately claim that trunks can swing his sword













hard enough to destroy earth 100x over. (And even that is low balling.)













yet this 100x earth busting attack. Can't even damage Goku's finger.













Which according to the brilliant math of reviewer03, only possesses













1/1000th of Goku's real power.had originally calculated Goku to be able













to tear planets apart with full power punches but now I see that all it













takes is a simple poke from














his finger....

And DC enigmas STILL HAVE THE NERVE to claim that DBZ isn't a ridiculously OP show. "

Goku can punch out universes:
 https://plus.google.com/111360070266915769819/posts/Zx2Ji9xBAh1

https://plus.google.com/103671898476907153786/posts/Zy4fEAhgxxB

Keep in he kept this power in SSj,with base being a 50th of what he was when fighting Beerus,& he trained with Vegeta under Whis & even went into the time chamber with Vegeta(not to mention the zenkais that came after).
https://plus.google.com/108745336952236894636/posts/25rTEkE3vLr

"Goku black Was already 400 x stronger than Goku in the last arc, and




that is a fact because Trunk Stated Goku black was on par if not




slightly stronger than SSj3 Goku while in his base.

Goku black was current Goku who had his Bodies Switched by Zamasu and Went to the future and fought Trunk for a year.

so...it's




a much stronger Goku, Goku and Vegeta both Surpassed Black in episode




63 indicating that they got at least 400 x stronger in order for vegeta




and Goku to bully him.

also, Before those power ups Black Stated Goku and vegeta where fodder to him and that he could kill them any time he wanted to."

  -    Ragnarok423

This is backed up by the fact that Black could compete against SSj2 Goku using his base:
Image result for goku vs black

Black became much stronger than this later.

DBZ characters are massively faster than light(mftl).
For those who doubt light speed is ever stated(at 10 minutes in)

Dragon Ball Episode 140 English Dubbed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykh9joYnKGg

http://www.comicvine.com/dragon-balls/4055-46445/forums/finally-dbz-time-reaction-has-minimum-quantificati-754608/

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243021-kid_goku_laser_dodges_1_super.gif

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243018-kid_goku_aser_dodges_2_super.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149746/3274855-3245560-catch%2Bdragon-ball.jpg

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243009-goku_8_arms_super.gif

http://s103.photobucket.com/user/kinasin/media/250661-goku_dodges_taiyoken1_super.jpg.html

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114806/3071780-8612189208-25066.jpg

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/250664-goku_dodges_taiyoken_3_super.jpg

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/576/304833-225121_picmoon1_super.jpg

Shortly before,Raditz dodged a faster blast
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140518175200/ultradragonball/images/thumb/8/80/Light_of_Death.jpg/185px-Light_of_Death.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243939-radditz_speed4_super.jpg

Speed rises with power:
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/UYQZEFSmfJJ

Goku catches Beerus clinging to Whis,who is moving at speeds great enough to cross hundreds of billions of light years in a matter of minutes:
https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/QwGn5p8Nqxg

Speed calculation for the fight with Goku & Beerus:
 https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/KhqxQuFX49H



Skill:
Goku adapted to Roshi & came up with a fighting style to counter him.
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i009.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i010.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i011.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i012.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i013.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i014.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i015.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i016.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s002.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s003.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s004.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s005.jpg





Gotenks warped reality in the Buu Saga:
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/awwuCMp7VKB

Copy Vegeta stomped him in base form.
Image result for copy vegeta vs gotenks

Goku matched Copy Vegeta:





Goku resists hax:






Ki allows heat resistance:
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/XqkqyEEA2nX

Ki even produces heat, like other forms of energy.

http://www.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/209/14

http://www.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/209/15

We see gohan use ki to start up the fire to cook the meat

Plus in dbz the stronger you are the stronger your ki becomes.





Debunking Goku downplay:
Goku, along with other saiyans, have been shown to be able to survive in space a considerable amount of time:
https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/PNcKVUMbDFs

Earth's core could not kill Goku.
https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/QNYfCA4NXAS

https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/hdAfamyTNDd

Goku even teleports back without the suit, so he took it off down there & was fine.


Goku could clearly lift more than 40 tons prior to becoming a god.

Goku is not weak to lasers.
https://plus.google.com/112546901777971778992/posts/UDGahLmBxB8





DBZ filler AKA the anime is canon:

“Some













of the filler most fans complain about as being non-canon material was













actually Toriyama’s idea.”-from Kanzenshuu. “Toriyama: Dragon Ball, it’s













the anime and the manga”.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/production/toriyama/
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/1226/422453-animeme4_super.jpg
Translation for the photo.
"12:













From time to time, il would happen that people whom I didn’t even know













were approaching me about the anime. Things were often said like: “Oh













jeeze, between the manga and the anime, you must never take any time to













let yourself breathe!". In reality, I had hardly worked at all on the













anime, I had put confidence in my collaborators. I had enough to do just













with the manga. I didn’t want to work myself to death, you know...
Toriyama: I want to live until I’m 100 years old!
13:













For example, drawing an image of a movement in a manga is relatively













simple, but to animate this image, you had to decompose the movement and













draw all the intermediary movements. That demands a colossal amount of













work. (Ok, the example of Kame-sennin might not be the most













appropriate...)
14: Of course, those who have read Dragon Ball have













noticed that certain stories which are found in the anime didn’t existed













in the manga.
Oolong: What’s this? I never saw that in the manga....
ENstraight
As













one adventure in the manga corresponds to about 10 minutes of













animation, and since one episode comprises on average 30 minutes, the









entire series of Dragon Ball would have passed by very quickly. The team









of animators therefore had to insert some original stories. I admire what they have done, that’s a hell of a job!
Toriyama: Dragon Ball, it’s the anime and the manga!"


The battle:
Superman VS Goku 2 Death Battle Review - YouTube (debunking Screw Attack)

Superman vs Goku: An Objective Look - YouTube (GT vs Post-Crisis)

April 13, 2014 (Pre-Crisis vs Composite Movie Goku/Pre-God Goku)

The original post(posted by me):
https://plus.google.com/b/110233506537878589617/110233506537878589617/posts/7pWphQsgw6p?pageId=110233506537878589617
Also on:
Goku vs Superman

SSjGSSj/SSjB vs Superman Prime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNWWs8GI24I&feature=autoshare
 
You can even see the full context of the comics here:
http://readcomiconline.to/


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That fight was STUPID. There was a lot wrong with it for example (but not limited too) : the fake "gravity formula" putting a cap on Goku's potential, the fact that Superman is weak to loud sounds and Goku screams a lot, Goku being an all around better fighter and should be able to win easily regardless of "lifting strength" e.g. Wonder Woman, and the Solar Flare + Destructo Disk combo just to name a few. 
That fight was STUPID. There was a lot wrong with it for example (but not limited too) : the fake "gravity formula" putting a cap on Goku's potential, the fact that Superman is weak to loud sounds and Goku screams a lot, Goku being an all around better fighter and should be able to win easily regardless of "lifting strength" e.g. Wonder Woman, and the Solar Flare + Destructo Disk combo just to name a few. 
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Nope. Look here, buckaroos. This whole "Calculations" thing on the Goku vs Superman debate is a waste of time.

Why? Simple question.

Superman is OP. That's his whole deal.
Batman is smarter than anyone. Juggernaut is more unstoppable than anyone. Tony Stark is the best engineer in the universe. Bruce Banner is stronger than anyone, but only when he's angry.

Superman is more powerful than anyone. That's his power, flat-out. He is stronger, he is faster, he is basically invulnerable.

The bad Superman stories look at that and say "whoa, let's make a story where we talk about how awesome Superman is." And that makes for a goshdarn terrible story! Imagine a Batman story where all he does is go to chess tournaments and win. Of course he wins, he's the goshdarn Batman! Or a story focused around the Juggernaut - "You can gain everlasting wealth, if only you can smash through these dozen stone walls!" Walls: gone. "Tony Stark - look at this technology! Can you improve it?" Not only can he improve it, but he'll probably sell it and make another few billion dollars. "Okay, here's the plan. First, we get the Hulk really really mad. Then we see if he's gotten strong or not!" Worst. Plan. Ever.

So a lot of the stories you're talking about are those where Mechagodzilla rises from the ocean and Superman has to punch it to death. We all know Superman is going to win in that fight. That is literally how the character is defined. This, incidentally, is one of the things that made Man of Steel pretty crummy. "Oh no, it's General Zod! Can Superman defeat him?" Of course Superman can defeat him, he's Superman!

The trick to good comic writing is to accept The Gimmick as true, and then write around it. Explore what The Gimmick really means. Explore the things the superhero can't do.

Good Iron Man stories are never about Tony Stark's incredible engineering prowess, they're about Tony Stark's complete inability to control himself and to form sane human relationships. Good Hulk stories are never about the Hulk's strength, they're about Bruce Banner's war (and occasional alliance) with the creature that lives inside him. Good Batman stories aren't about Bruce Wayne's intelligence and wealth; they're about Bruce Wayne's fears, loneliness, and crippling moral code.

Good Superman stories aren't about Superman punching real hard. They're about Superman confronting things that he can't solve just by punching real hard. They're about Superman confronting his inner barrier to win.

The good Superman stories deal with this - they're about Superman being unable to save everyone, or a villain attacking Superman in his vulnerabilities, which are mostly based around his relationships and moral code, or something that doesn't involve Superman making a problem go away by punching it.

In short, Superman is the most powerful thing in the universe. He always will be.

Goku is the best martial artist in the universe, but he still has limits. He breaks his limits on a daily basis, but he still has limits.

Superman wins, because that's what superman is meant to do.

Pairing them both is weak, and quite frankly a dumb idea.

Nope. Look here, buckaroos. This whole "Calculations" thing on the Goku vs Superman debate is a waste of time.

Why? Simple question.

Superman is OP. That's his whole deal.
Batman is smarter than anyone. Juggernaut is more unstoppable than anyone. Tony Stark is the best engineer in the universe. Bruce Banner is stronger than anyone, but only when he's angry.

Superman is more powerful than anyone. That's his power, flat-out. He is stronger, he is faster, he is basically invulnerable.

The bad Superman stories look at that and say "whoa, let's make a story where we talk about how awesome Superman is." And that makes for a goshdarn terrible story! Imagine a Batman story where all he does is go to chess tournaments and win. Of course he wins, he's the goshdarn Batman! Or a story focused around the Juggernaut - "You can gain everlasting wealth, if only you can smash through these dozen stone walls!" Walls: gone. "Tony Stark - look at this technology! Can you improve it?" Not only can he improve it, but he'll probably sell it and make another few billion dollars. "Okay, here's the plan. First, we get the Hulk really really mad. Then we see if he's gotten strong or not!" Worst. Plan. Ever.

So a lot of the stories you're talking about are those where Mechagodzilla rises from the ocean and Superman has to punch it to death. We all know Superman is going to win in that fight. That is literally how the character is defined. This, incidentally, is one of the things that made Man of Steel pretty crummy. "Oh no, it's General Zod! Can Superman defeat him?" Of course Superman can defeat him, he's Superman!

The trick to good comic writing is to accept The Gimmick as true, and then write around it. Explore what The Gimmick really means. Explore the things the superhero can't do.

Good Iron Man stories are never about Tony Stark's incredible engineering prowess, they're about Tony Stark's complete inability to control himself and to form sane human relationships. Good Hulk stories are never about the Hulk's strength, they're about Bruce Banner's war (and occasional alliance) with the creature that lives inside him. Good Batman stories aren't about Bruce Wayne's intelligence and wealth; they're about Bruce Wayne's fears, loneliness, and crippling moral code.

Good Superman stories aren't about Superman punching real hard. They're about Superman confronting things that he can't solve just by punching real hard. They're about Superman confronting his inner barrier to win.

The good Superman stories deal with this - they're about Superman being unable to save everyone, or a villain attacking Superman in his vulnerabilities, which are mostly based around his relationships and moral code, or something that doesn't involve Superman making a problem go away by punching it.

In short, Superman is the most powerful thing in the universe. He always will be.

Goku is the best martial artist in the universe, but he still has limits. He breaks his limits on a daily basis, but he still has limits.

Superman wins, because that's what superman is meant to do.

Pairing them both is weak, and quite frankly a dumb idea.

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maguc : You clearly didn't look at any of the evidence or read any of the comics.Plenty of people have been stronger than Superman & have even beaten him(i.e. Trigon) or he's needed help to beat his opponent.Even Superman himself has stated he's not limitless.


What a good comic is subjective.I think character building is important,& there is a little bit of that in the comics,but that's irrelevant.How about you know about the character you claim is limitless?Superman isn't even the strongest in his own verse,so it's impossible for him to be unbeatable.Come back when you've actually looked at the evidence fully to give a rebuttal.
maguc : You clearly didn't look at any of the evidence or read any of the comics.Plenty of people have been stronger than Superman & have even beaten him(i.e. Trigon) or he's needed help to beat his opponent.Even Superman himself has stated he's not limitless.


What a good comic is subjective.I think character building is important,& there is a little bit of that in the comics,but that's irrelevant.How about you know about the character you claim is limitless?Superman isn't even the strongest in his own verse,so it's impossible for him to be unbeatable.Come back when you've actually looked at the evidence fully to give a rebuttal.
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Supermatt6534 : Oh, trust me, I know this.
And I've taken it into account.

Really, the whole Goku vs Superman debate thing depends on the author which writes superman. Depending on the author, either superman wins with no effort, or he has a hard time.

Point still stands, Superman will always win, because that's the point of his character.

A more recent example is Saitama of One Punch Man, his whole character is designed on the fact that he's overpowered, and the universe it creates works around that. Same thing with superman. Only difference is Superman is more serious, overcoming his own obstacles, while Saitama is more comedic, as supervillians have become mundane things.

So, yeah. Superman wins, all the calculations really mean nothing when you're facing a character that's meant to win, that's meant to be overpowered.
Supermatt6534 : Oh, trust me, I know this.
And I've taken it into account.

Really, the whole Goku vs Superman debate thing depends on the author which writes superman. Depending on the author, either superman wins with no effort, or he has a hard time.

Point still stands, Superman will always win, because that's the point of his character.

A more recent example is Saitama of One Punch Man, his whole character is designed on the fact that he's overpowered, and the universe it creates works around that. Same thing with superman. Only difference is Superman is more serious, overcoming his own obstacles, while Saitama is more comedic, as supervillians have become mundane things.

So, yeah. Superman wins, all the calculations really mean nothing when you're facing a character that's meant to win, that's meant to be overpowered.
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maguc : The author argument has no weight.You're basically  arguing in favor of giving Superman plot armor,which is bias.One is to take existing & consistent evidence in these discussions,not just say "he's meant to be that way" with nothing to back it up.Again,no he doesn't.He's lost fights before,as I've presented.I knew you were going to say something that ridiculous.Saitama is not over powered,he doesn't have anything to suggest he's even above planet level.Even Superman could beat him.Why?Because he has more evidence on his side than Saitama,& Goku has more evidence on his side than the 2 of them combined.Just because his villains are fodder doesn't make him over powered.No,you can't just throw away evidence because you don't like it.I still don't see you refuting the fact Superman himself,as well as DC,flat out state Superman has limits,& they fall short compared to Goku's limits.
maguc : The author argument has no weight.You're basically  arguing in favor of giving Superman plot armor,which is bias.One is to take existing & consistent evidence in these discussions,not just say "he's meant to be that way" with nothing to back it up.Again,no he doesn't.He's lost fights before,as I've presented.I knew you were going to say something that ridiculous.Saitama is not over powered,he doesn't have anything to suggest he's even above planet level.Even Superman could beat him.Why?Because he has more evidence on his side than Saitama,& Goku has more evidence on his side than the 2 of them combined.Just because his villains are fodder doesn't make him over powered.No,you can't just throw away evidence because you don't like it.I still don't see you refuting the fact Superman himself,as well as DC,flat out state Superman has limits,& they fall short compared to Goku's limits.
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06-01-16 04:42 PM
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Supermatt6534 : Yet you have a complete bias towards Goku. I'm done, I've made my point clear, and your "evidence" is weak even if taken into account. You want Goku to win, you don't want to have a discussion.

Good day sire,
Supermatt6534 : Yet you have a complete bias towards Goku. I'm done, I've made my point clear, and your "evidence" is weak even if taken into account. You want Goku to win, you don't want to have a discussion.

Good day sire,
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06-01-16 04:47 PM
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maguc : Nothing I've stated has suggested any bias.If anyone has shown bias,it's you considering you constantly state a character can't be beaten even though I've presented evidence showing that to not be true.If he couldn't be beaten,a supernova would do nothing to him,he wouldn't have almost died against Doomsday,etc.If my evidence is weak,why haven't you refuted a shred of it?I don't want a discussion yet you're tapping out because you can't counter my points?
maguc : Nothing I've stated has suggested any bias.If anyone has shown bias,it's you considering you constantly state a character can't be beaten even though I've presented evidence showing that to not be true.If he couldn't be beaten,a supernova would do nothing to him,he wouldn't have almost died against Doomsday,etc.If my evidence is weak,why haven't you refuted a shred of it?I don't want a discussion yet you're tapping out because you can't counter my points?
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06-01-16 04:56 PM
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Wow, just wow. You even acknowledged Goku loses his shirt halfway through every fight. You payed attention to everything it seems although I am not sure Goku would win. 
Wow, just wow. You even acknowledged Goku loses his shirt halfway through every fight. You payed attention to everything it seems although I am not sure Goku would win. 
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06-01-16 04:58 PM
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Supermatt6534 : Alright, let's start from your post before this one.

"The author argument has no weight"
The author has 100% authority over the character they write. You know, what an author does.

"You're basically arguing in favor of giving Superman plot armor,which is bias"
Well, i'm actually more into the Goku bias, he's a better all around character. You still can't deny that plot armor is a strong factor during these things.

"He's lost fights before,as I've presented."
Alright, sure. He's lost fights to literal gods before. You know, omnipotent beings.

"Saitama is not over powered,he doesn't have anything to suggest he's even above planet level."
I'm not even gonna touch that, do some research man. Saitama literally has no limits, and it's been proven multiple times. Like the time he punched a meteor and it broke in a billion pieces.

"Goku has more evidence on his side than the 2 of them combined."
More evidence does not equal a stronger character.

"You can't just throw away evidence because you don't like it"
Not that I don't like it, or that i'm throwing it away. It's a pretty researched thing you have there, but like I've said,
Calculations mean nothing to a character that has no limits.


"Superman himself,as well as DC,flat out state Superman has limits"
Well, I don't know if you know this, but the "limits" being talked about here aren't actual limits. Superman decided to limit his powers subconsciously. Sure, he has limits, but they are limits he himself imposed on, well, himself. Not limits in the way of his strength, speed, power, or anything like that.

And all of this falls back on what I say, it all depends on the author, which you know, writes a character.
Supermatt6534 : Alright, let's start from your post before this one.

"The author argument has no weight"
The author has 100% authority over the character they write. You know, what an author does.

"You're basically arguing in favor of giving Superman plot armor,which is bias"
Well, i'm actually more into the Goku bias, he's a better all around character. You still can't deny that plot armor is a strong factor during these things.

"He's lost fights before,as I've presented."
Alright, sure. He's lost fights to literal gods before. You know, omnipotent beings.

"Saitama is not over powered,he doesn't have anything to suggest he's even above planet level."
I'm not even gonna touch that, do some research man. Saitama literally has no limits, and it's been proven multiple times. Like the time he punched a meteor and it broke in a billion pieces.

"Goku has more evidence on his side than the 2 of them combined."
More evidence does not equal a stronger character.

"You can't just throw away evidence because you don't like it"
Not that I don't like it, or that i'm throwing it away. It's a pretty researched thing you have there, but like I've said,
Calculations mean nothing to a character that has no limits.


"Superman himself,as well as DC,flat out state Superman has limits"
Well, I don't know if you know this, but the "limits" being talked about here aren't actual limits. Superman decided to limit his powers subconsciously. Sure, he has limits, but they are limits he himself imposed on, well, himself. Not limits in the way of his strength, speed, power, or anything like that.

And all of this falls back on what I say, it all depends on the author, which you know, writes a character.
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06-01-16 05:02 PM
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"The author argument has no weight." / "One is to take existing & consistent evidence in these discussions,not just say "he's meant to be that way" with nothing to back it up."

The author of a character has complete, 100% authority over just how powerful that character is. No calculations, no ONE ELSE can change that. End of story.

Here's an example: Giorno Giovanna from Vento Aureo (JoJo Part 5). VERY weak physically, Goku and Superman would easily wipe the floor with him. If it wasn't for his ability to turn LITERALLY ANYTHING to the "state of zero". His opponent's attack, even their WILLPOWER TO ATTACK. There are no calculations required there to know he would absolutely annihilate Goku, Superman, and Saitama all at the same time. What an author says, goes.

Also, not completely related to the Goku vs Superman debate, but...

"Saitama is not over powered,he doesn't have anything to suggest he's even above planet level."

Saitama kills the GALAXY DESTROYER BOROS without even making physical contact, while Boros states he is able to destroy planets easily. Just as easily as Saiyan Saga Vegeta if you want to put it in DBZ terms. Saitama also completely deflects an energy beam that was MORE than enough to destroy the planet. And this is only based off of the ANIME, not even the webcomic which has gone much farther.




"The author argument has no weight." / "One is to take existing & consistent evidence in these discussions,not just say "he's meant to be that way" with nothing to back it up."

The author of a character has complete, 100% authority over just how powerful that character is. No calculations, no ONE ELSE can change that. End of story.

Here's an example: Giorno Giovanna from Vento Aureo (JoJo Part 5). VERY weak physically, Goku and Superman would easily wipe the floor with him. If it wasn't for his ability to turn LITERALLY ANYTHING to the "state of zero". His opponent's attack, even their WILLPOWER TO ATTACK. There are no calculations required there to know he would absolutely annihilate Goku, Superman, and Saitama all at the same time. What an author says, goes.

Also, not completely related to the Goku vs Superman debate, but...

"Saitama is not over powered,he doesn't have anything to suggest he's even above planet level."

Saitama kills the GALAXY DESTROYER BOROS without even making physical contact, while Boros states he is able to destroy planets easily. Just as easily as Saiyan Saga Vegeta if you want to put it in DBZ terms. Saitama also completely deflects an energy beam that was MORE than enough to destroy the planet. And this is only based off of the ANIME, not even the webcomic which has gone much farther.




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06-01-16 05:15 PM
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maguc : Now you're stawmaning me?I never said an author has no weight.I said the argument that "it depends on the author" has no weight.You can't cherry pick authors,you have to take what is consistent,not ones that write something you like more.Yet you bring up the hypothetical of giving Superman plot armor.No,plot armor is not a valid argument,& is often ignored with good reason.You need to take what is consistent to see what the character can actually do,not tipping the scales in his favor.That is biased.They were not omnipotent being.Goku has been stated to be a god now,but he not omnipotent.Trigon soloed the Justice League & Teen Titans,yet he was beaten,so he isn't omnipotent.A god is doesn't have to be all powerful to be a god.Also that's still a problem in your argument,if he couldn't be defeated,he'd be omnipotent & would be able to stalemate omnipotents.I have done research,which is why I make that statement.There is no evidence that he has no limits,otherwise I'd believe that.You're joking right?That's not even Dragon Ball level.Goku took out a moon level enemy(Drum) with a single kick & busted his head open,yet he has limits like Saitama & Superman.I mean he has more to suggest he would win.I suppose that was poor wording on my part.Clearly you don't & you are.You flat out said it doesn't matter without refuting any of it.No limits even though DC & Superman himself state he has limits?Limiting himself doesn't mean those are his only limits.This is proven by the fact he needed Captain Marvel to move the book in the Library of Limbo,yet the failed to move it.Authors in DC don't have supreme authority over a character though,only DC themselves do,& they've flat out stated that Superman has limits.If he didn't,you'd be able to prove it.
maguc : Now you're stawmaning me?I never said an author has no weight.I said the argument that "it depends on the author" has no weight.You can't cherry pick authors,you have to take what is consistent,not ones that write something you like more.Yet you bring up the hypothetical of giving Superman plot armor.No,plot armor is not a valid argument,& is often ignored with good reason.You need to take what is consistent to see what the character can actually do,not tipping the scales in his favor.That is biased.They were not omnipotent being.Goku has been stated to be a god now,but he not omnipotent.Trigon soloed the Justice League & Teen Titans,yet he was beaten,so he isn't omnipotent.A god is doesn't have to be all powerful to be a god.Also that's still a problem in your argument,if he couldn't be defeated,he'd be omnipotent & would be able to stalemate omnipotents.I have done research,which is why I make that statement.There is no evidence that he has no limits,otherwise I'd believe that.You're joking right?That's not even Dragon Ball level.Goku took out a moon level enemy(Drum) with a single kick & busted his head open,yet he has limits like Saitama & Superman.I mean he has more to suggest he would win.I suppose that was poor wording on my part.Clearly you don't & you are.You flat out said it doesn't matter without refuting any of it.No limits even though DC & Superman himself state he has limits?Limiting himself doesn't mean those are his only limits.This is proven by the fact he needed Captain Marvel to move the book in the Library of Limbo,yet the failed to move it.Authors in DC don't have supreme authority over a character though,only DC themselves do,& they've flat out stated that Superman has limits.If he didn't,you'd be able to prove it.
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06-01-16 05:23 PM
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Galacta : Only if the author is the only author of the character,yet Superman has multiple authors,therefore,only DC has ultimate authority over their characters.
I haven't gotten far in JoJo,so I'm not going to weigh in on that character.Boros isn't a galaxy destroyer.It was stated by Boros himself that his strongest attack would only destroy the surface of the planet.
http://i.imgur.com/R8Mmgxl.png
King Vegeta could casually wipe out planets,& Vegeta stated he surpassed him before he was old enough to tell the difference.Saiyan Saga Vegeta is multi-planet level,not just planet level.The One Punch Man anime isn't canon,unless it is stated to be canon.
Galacta : Only if the author is the only author of the character,yet Superman has multiple authors,therefore,only DC has ultimate authority over their characters.
I haven't gotten far in JoJo,so I'm not going to weigh in on that character.Boros isn't a galaxy destroyer.It was stated by Boros himself that his strongest attack would only destroy the surface of the planet.
http://i.imgur.com/R8Mmgxl.png
King Vegeta could casually wipe out planets,& Vegeta stated he surpassed him before he was old enough to tell the difference.Saiyan Saga Vegeta is multi-planet level,not just planet level.The One Punch Man anime isn't canon,unless it is stated to be canon.
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06-01-16 05:28 PM
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awesomeguy279 : If you aren't sure,look over the evidence multiple times & think on it if you have to.
awesomeguy279 : If you aren't sure,look over the evidence multiple times & think on it if you have to.
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06-02-16 01:46 PM
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I knew someone who did this for some sort of school thing

He was immediately failed, not because of how utterly convoluted the idea is, but because he used sources from wikipedia.

Just thought I'd share that story.
I knew someone who did this for some sort of school thing

He was immediately failed, not because of how utterly convoluted the idea is, but because he used sources from wikipedia.

Just thought I'd share that story.
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07-07-16 11:36 AM
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I'm sorry I don't really see the point in this since maguc said why. But I'm going to put in a small input of what I think and feel towards it. Debates like this will cause a break out fight for no reason. So thus why I'm not going to vote for neither. I understand some debates are necessary while others are not sadly. :/
I'm sorry I don't really see the point in this since maguc said why. But I'm going to put in a small input of what I think and feel towards it. Debates like this will cause a break out fight for no reason. So thus why I'm not going to vote for neither. I understand some debates are necessary while others are not sadly. :/
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(edited by Eniitan on 07-07-16 11:37 AM)    

07-07-16 11:41 AM
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What I don't understand is how in the second Goku vs. Superman Death Battle Goku didn't teleport Superman away to a planet without a star.
He was already shown to have figured it out in the first fight, and it was clearly a continuation.
What I don't understand is how in the second Goku vs. Superman Death Battle Goku didn't teleport Superman away to a planet without a star.
He was already shown to have figured it out in the first fight, and it was clearly a continuation.
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07-07-16 12:34 PM
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Eniitan : & I refuted what he said.If you don't see the point in debates over fiction,I don't see why you'd even comment on a post about it.I honestly did it because I was bored.It's one of the things I do in my free time,to test the logic & intelligence of others,same as I do with any argument.
Eniitan : & I refuted what he said.If you don't see the point in debates over fiction,I don't see why you'd even comment on a post about it.I honestly did it because I was bored.It's one of the things I do in my free time,to test the logic & intelligence of others,same as I do with any argument.
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07-07-16 12:35 PM
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pennylessz : Considering they think Superman has infinite power,when that claim was debunked a while ago,I'd say it's because of bias,or they just like to annoy people.
pennylessz : Considering they think Superman has infinite power,when that claim was debunked a while ago,I'd say it's because of bias,or they just like to annoy people.
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07-07-16 12:38 PM
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Supermatt6534 : Well sorry if you see it that way then. I wondered why I even posted here. I can understand if you were bored and to make it. All I am saying is to understand others opinions and I said some are necessary while some are not. I am not saying not all of your debates of fiction are unnecessary, but I feel now you didn't see the message what I was trying to say no need to be rude about it. '-'
Supermatt6534 : Well sorry if you see it that way then. I wondered why I even posted here. I can understand if you were bored and to make it. All I am saying is to understand others opinions and I said some are necessary while some are not. I am not saying not all of your debates of fiction are unnecessary, but I feel now you didn't see the message what I was trying to say no need to be rude about it. '-'
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(edited by Eniitan on 07-07-16 12:39 PM)    

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