Here is the situation. A girl receives major scholarships to become an amazing doctor through a prestigious college in the medical field. Her boyfriend begged her to stay in Hawaii to be with him for he loved her so much that he was afraid of losing her through a long distance relationship. Due to her love of him she canceled all her scholarships, married him, and lives a life here in Hawaii as a cashier at a local grocery store. She lived happily every after with Ohana and Aloha surrounding her. The end.

Now in this story it is debatable on how her life played out.

My friend believes in both "Fate" and "Living life to it's full potential". So in this story my friend believes that the Girl passed up her full potential out of love for her current husband. Yet my friend believes that fate brought the Girl and her future Husband together.
My friend feels conflicted because She believes that many people pass up life's full potential in them and settle for less and that fate's plan is to live to life's full potential. Yet in this situation it appears that this is what fate had planned for the Girl but doesn't understand how the girl could pass up her full potential and could have been doing amazing things in her lifetime.

Don't get my friend wrong though. She understands about love, nuances in life, and things out of our control. But she really believes people are settling for the average life instead of living a full life. She has witnessed it happen. Yet fate doesn't seem to be playing out like she thought fate did.

So the Question pertaining to the bolded story told at the beginning.
Question Did the Girl live her life this way because this is what fate had planned out for her? This was all fate for her?

OR did she ignore her true calling and pass up what she was born to do. Did she pass up Life's ultimate goal and not live in her full potential in life?

What is fate? Does it have thoughts? Does it have feelings? No, but we do.

Maybe she choose her path of free will. Maybe fate is an illusion.

tRIUNE : This.

Humans have too much free will, emotions and actions that fate being a thing, is very unlikely because of that. Humans can pretty much do whatever they want.

Not to be inconsiderate or anything, I find the debate about fate to be a rather interesting one... but in this case, does it really matter whether or not it was fate, free will, or anything at all?

In the end, the only thing that should matter in this situation is the fact that she lived happy ever after because of this choice. Sure, her life would've certainly played out differently had her chosen her career in this scenario and it's reasonable to think of an outcome where she would find a different type of happiness, dare I say even better. However, it's also true that said choice could also play out for the worst, leading to an unhappy life as a consequence.

To make things clear, if you spend your time thinking about such things you won't ever be truly happy no matter what choice you make, because you'll be constantly conflicted about whether or not having made a different choice at some point in your life would have led to a better outcome than the one you're currently experiencing. Since changing the past isn't really an option and denying the reality doesn't really makes it cease to exist (sadly), it's just best to try and reach happiness with what lies in front of you.

mvhupsel :
maguc :
tRIUNE :

Ok. Lets get further into this then. All of you may have had times in your life where you felt things were just falling into place. Would you consider this fate? Just because you made this one choice different things start happening really without explanation? Or is it right time right place? But is even that fate? Maybe you consider it God's plan for your life?

Yes we have free will and everything we do has positive and negative consequences. But can you really predict the things that happen after choices are made?

Take for instance lets take for instance paying money to be entered into the million dollar lottery. Let's say a person really needs the money. Everyone who enters the lottery really needs the money and some more than others. But say a man is about to lose his house. He pays the last of his pennies and he wins the lottery. Was this fate or free will? The odds of winning becomes slimmer with every additional person that enters the Lottery. Other people needed the money more but he got it. Luck?

A woman had entered the lottery to get money to pay for hospital bills for her dying husband so he could survive. Because the other man won the lottery she loses and has to take her husband out of the hospital. He dies and she is broke and is giving up. She finds out that he kept a secret amount of cash hidden from her till he died. Finds out that he did this before she even met him just to hide the money. Is this because of fate or because of free will? Maybe luck?

Let's try a real thing that happened to me. This piano opportunity came about because I played at my brother's wedding. The pastor saw me and gave me his name to drop so I could audition. Unfortunately the lead pianist at the chapel thinks I can't do it and is keeping me from getting the job despite all the other employees thinking I am ready for I had been practicing with them and are confused at what the lead pianist wants me to do. The lead pianist is Elitist and puts all the other piano players down who are currently working there.
Fortunately just before I got this opportunity I saw an old friend of mine from an school program she runs. We haven't seen each other in over 5 years. She just happened to be at this store I was in with my parents. She offered me a job at the program she runs which has better benefits, better pay, and is a state job which could lead into a Department of Education position if the opportunity arises.
Was this fate or free will? She doesn't even live near me she lives 30 minutes away in another town over but she happened to be in my town that night.. Luck?

I just wanted to see where we could go with this conversation. So I'm not attacking any of your ideas or theories or thoughts. I think this is a subject that I haven't come across on here before.

If taking a scientific approach to this subject, then the fact remains that when talking about fate there's currently no concrete evidence of it's existence (and it's unlikely that there'll be any), only theories about it. As such, there's no way to use the scientific method to test how it behaves on a controlled environment, nor is there a different method that could put said theories veracity into test. As a consequence, regardless of whether or not it exists you won't be able to reach a definitive answer with the current tools and knowledge at our disposal.

However, if you want to take a philosophical approach then there's lots of grounds for discussion about the subject, even if it's all just theories. It's up for each individual to use their judgement and decide what makes the most sense to them, but fortunately there is a variety of theories and materials about it that you can find with a little research. If you're interested I'd definitely recommend that you give it a go and then try and come to your own conclusion.

As for myself, I don't really have anything to contribute on that field, simply because I stopped bothering with the things that I believe are beyond my reach. I came to the conclusion it requires quite some arrogance to deem yourself qualified to understand things of such magnitude when as an individual you're nothing but a very small fraction of humanity, which in itself is also nothing but a very small fraction of the universe. It's kinda like comparing atoms to our bodies, except in our case there's a possibility that we're in an even smaller scale of comparison. So yeah, Divinities, the meaning of life, the origin of everything, spiritual and supernatural phenomenons, Fate, etc... Those are just some of the things I decided to not bother wasting my life span and efforts in order to try understanding, simply because I don't think I'll ever be able to find an answer that will satisfy me before I die. Couple that with the fact that afterlife is one of the things included into that group and I can't take it into consideration for that decision, even if there happens to be an afterlife in the end. No way for me to know for sure so if there is one, I'll simply bother with it when that time comes, regardless of what consequences that might imply.

It kinda feels like I sidetracked a little and if I did I apologize, but that'll be it for my input, hope you don't mind.

This is easy.

If you believe in a completely mechanical Universe, then that means, that everything is mechanical. Automotive. And happens because it scientifically did so. Now, in this universe, you as an individual are composed of carnal matter that will operate automatically in scientific form to its environment.

There is no you. You are an illusion made up by your brain. You're just matter, composed in a very complicated way that will react exactly the way it scientifically has to react. No variables.

Now, if you believe in spiritual things, then thoughts and inspiration at the basest of level may not be depended on carnal circumstances and you have what is called "free will" which let's you operate freely of your environment in choice.

Even many Christians don't really believe in free will. They believe in a static Universe where the world and what would happen in it was written out in the very beginning. But Don't. Doesn't make enough sense for Yahova to do that. Ruins the accountability of morality, ect.


camikunimura:

I'm not sure where you're getting this all from, but. . . where is the basis for saying that there is fate in the first place?

Don't we need a reason to beleive in something before we say it's real?

And if there is no evidence, then why do we worry? There's nothing to fear, and we can go about our lives normally.

What makes you suspectant of fate? From reading your post, I can understand a that it's strange that some things had lined up like they did, and I very much do believe that Yahova does set things up for us. Like some of the important people we meet. After all, God is looking to bless and help out his people isn't he?

Also. Some things just happen and you need to look up the cognitive reasons that they did. Sometimes you meet an important person who just happens to be on vacation- because you were the random person who sat next them, and nothing more.

Other times, God is setting things up for us, and that has happened to me a few times in my life.

You just have to use wisdom and discernment. And common sense above most of all.

Now, I would never throw my meaning into the wind over something as silly as "fate" which has no master. But divine intervention because of the actions I have made in my life?

Now there's a strong may be

Sword legion : I think my viewpoint matches fairly closely to they way yours does (but a lot of what I say is not directed at you so don't feel required to respond to any of it if you don't want to ).

Humans have free will and we are allowed to make the choices we make in life. We don't always like the choices but we are free to choose in every situation we come across. I think God (or whatever force you choose to believe or not believe in) allows us to make these choices and endure the consequences that come with them no matter how good or bad they might be.

Where God comes in is that He does as much as he can with the choices we make to improve everyone's lives.

Take the case of this girl who was going to become a doctor.... why is her fullest potential to become a doctor? Does God think that is her fullest potential or do people think that? What if her fullest potential was to become a CEO or a janitor? What's wrong with finding someone to love and get married to and living a simpler life? IF that girl had some sort of important task to accomplish (like curing cancer) I believe that that information could be passed on to just about any other up and coming doctor if that is what God intends to do. If God wanted cancer to be cured right now then someone would know how to cure it and we wouldn't have to deal with it. However, I think that whole point is moot anyway because I don't think this life is about removing challenges but experiencing and growing from them. Whether we end up as doctors or janitors or a myriad of other possible professions how we improve on what we have and the positive effect we have on the world matters more than whatever this imagined fullest potential might be from our perspective.

Also, fate is crap. If Fate is truly in control then nothing I do matters. I could kill myself right now and that is what Fate "wanted". If I don't kill myself then it is no more or less meaningful. That simply doesn't make any sense to me.

It's not a question of Fate and what should have happened and what did and what didn't.

Here's the simple question that will make everything for better or for worse.

Is she happy?

Life doesn't matter if you fulfill your future or your potential and all that.  The world will continue on with or without you and all that matters is that you're doing things that make you happy, but not at the expense of other people

Being happy doesn't mean I should go watch pitbulls fight or I should rob people.  Being happy means I enjoy myself and that's that.

Human potential is measured by quality of life.  If she's happy, she's fulfilling her potential as a human.

I don't personally buy into the whole "fate" idea. It's nice in theory but I feel like we make our own fate. Decisions that we make as human beings, as well as decisions of those around us shape our lives and make big impacts on the way things turn out moving forward.

Although some situations in life make say (jokingly) the opposite, I do not believe there is such a thing as "fate." Yes, there are some circumstances that influence how your life goes. However one must make the most out of them.

For example, I believe I am an excellent writer, but making a living out of that talent is extremely difficult at the moment. I therefore have to find alternative sources of revenues to live, which gets me away from that "natural" talent. I may or may not be able to become a full-time writer; it all depends on my actions and no one else's.

To answer the original question: if the girl chose to marry the guy instead of accepting the scholarship, it means that she believes her self-interest was served better that way. Will she openly regret it one day? Maybe, maybe not. But what is done is done, and if she wants to change her situation she has to make the best out of it.

My father got my mother pregnant when he was not even 22 - and he was still in college, while she already had a steady job as an auxiliary nurse. In the end, he became a home maker for most of my K-11 years. He later told me that it was a choice and that he did not regret it. It was VERY difficult at times - like me, he needs intellectual stimulation or else he goes crazy - but he finally obtained a job when we were old enough not to need our parents around us all the time.

Ghostbear1111 : I am the same. Even though I love journalism, I would not just accept any job. No attack intended, but I highly doubt I would accept one south of the Mason-Dixon line. Not only would my husband NOT come with me, but these states are just too socially conservative for my taste. 

Sword legion : your description sounds more like a fatalistic one than a scientific one. I do not know that many scientists who pretend to know how humans interact without taking into account the many variables (if one can count them ALL) affecting their behaviors.

I believe there's no such thing as fate, all that exists is choice. A person has to make hundreds of choices each day and most are insignificant. To sit back and believe "fate" has a control in anything is giving up conscious control of your own life. While others' decisions and random chance will have a large part in everyone's lives, each person has a significant control over their decisions.

camkunimura :

So there's a couple ways to answer this. First, we should consider free will. If you don't believe in free will, then you must conclude fate. There's no other option then, or at least other options that can be chosen.

Second, we should consider what "full potential" means. Maybe marriage is full potential? Maybe becoming a doctor isn't part of her "full potential". Perhaps she was never meant to be a doctor? So here, fate and free choice can't be decided.

Third, is "full potential" determined by our choices? Such that, because she decided to settle down, she necessarily lived her potential. If people decide their own true calling, then it can never be simply "fate".

Fourth, perhaps human potential is so gigantic, that certain potentials are mutually exclusive. For example, I cannot become the successful businessman that never graduated high school. Why? Because I've already graduated high school. The potential to succeed without a diploma and the potential to succeed with one are exclusive. Maybe this girl either could never be married or could never be a doctor. She just had to choose what potential she wanted to become reality.

I like option 4 the best.

NameEntry : Of course! Each human is ultimately responsible for his or her decisions. There are circumstances out of control, but YOU do the final action.

Txgangsta : While there are (probably) no scientific basis to it, every human seems to "be born" to do something. That seems to be what the "full potential" is all about. However, it may also imply that new wave feminists would use that expression to deny that some women would indeed want to be home makers.