This is something I put together for the Goku vs Superman debate:

Lifting strength does not impact how hard you punch.
Don't believe me? Look here, it even applies to humans.

http://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-training/boxing-workouts/why-lifting-weights-wont-increase-punching-power

Travel speed =/= combat speed,even the comics say this.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111183084/4023525-5657008950-35a7p.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/2045848-wonder_woman_v_superman_1.jpg

For Post-Crisis:
http://www.screwattack.com/news/supermans-speed-how-fast-post-crisis-superman
http://www.screwattack.com/news/superman-punch-wonder-woman-sun-speed-feat
http://www.screwattack.com/news/supermans-infinite-mass-punch-how-powerfull
http://www.screwattack.com/news/superman-speed-feat-escaping-black-hole
http://www.screwattack.com/news/superman-world-shattering-punch
http://www.screwattack.com/news/mageddon-feat-supermans-strenght-and-durability
http://www.screwattack.com/news/durability-feat-superman-tank-planet-collision
http://www.screwattack.com/news/superman-last-son-sun-eater-feat-50-x-supernova
https://plus.google.com/u/0/100066304647727037914/posts/KxihcBkaqvF
Keep in mind the supernova feat was him taking a fraction of a supernova.

For Pre-Crisis(more on him later):
Superman even got stunned by a fraction of a supernova.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/74629/1398557-superman24303xt8.jpg
http://therec-room.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/feats-number-7-b.jpg
This is also the best I've seen him do without being amped up:
http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120228104058/marvel_dc/images/c/c9/Anti-Monitor_0007.jpg

About Superman Prime One Million :

-











They say his speed is infinite --> false: he couldn't save Atom's dimension because things happened too fast even for him (literally stated by Superman himself).

- They say he destroyed the universal threat Solaris --> false: yes, he defeated him, but Solaris











was already nearly killed by Superman One Million (Kal Kent); he also used the GL in order to do this feat. Not very impressive.

- They





say he created a universe --> LOL false: in fact he simply pulled Atom to a different universe through the universal gate and then said












"Welcome to my Universe".

- They say he has 5-D Imp powers and he





is omnipotent --> false: the 5-D Imps entered the Superman dynasty after Superman has already existed; for the same reason he needed the powers of a 5-D Imp Superman (Lzyxm Ltpkz) in order to bring back Lois (not to mention that he also needed her DNA, supplied by Kyle Rayner, which makes the feat even less impressive).

Also, nothing on panel states he isn't affected anymore by magic and Kryptonite. Omnipotent def not

- They say he recreated Krypton --> false: Hourman with the Worgolog did it.

- They say he was the 2nd most powerful being in DC, only behind the Presence --> false: probably a fanmade statement.

-





They say he reached the Source Wall --> false: Superman only says he





reached the edge of the Multiverse, the Source Wall was never specifically mentioned and he came back without answers to his questions.

False information on Superman prime 1 million


Prime is just a version of Superman with a large boost from sitting in the sun for 15,000 years. Much like Goku going Super Saiyan, if we can establish a baseline as well as the modifier for how much of a boost the











transformation gives we can get a good estimate of actual capabilities.











Since Prime has NO combat feats, upscaling base Superman is about the only way we can get this sorted. I posted above:
"Previously a 15 minute dip made him around 3x as strong, and 15,000 years of relaxing (which would be very very dull honestly) should be around a 1,577,847,000x boost then"

Cosmic Armor Superman:
https://plus.google.com/102683655307828907556/posts/iaJ8N1u85yX
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/FK7ABgHT4Da

More for Superman:
https://plus.google.com/111094366216215564026/posts/9FmPqwHcypP
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/HeHkLKT8TPx


For DBZ:
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/8Po9agR8Lwo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDoKIm3Xquk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5CTKZIMgDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTjCIZXxvoo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfpfmLYZf_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34szXr-6M6o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGhdBaNekmM
https://plus.google.com/100710881237554392560/posts/4F1fTykpTAs
http://www.screwattack.com/news/cell-solar-system-buster-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD872yk1_6w
http://www.saiyanisland.com/2014/05/akira-toriyama-reveals/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdLpKXk1VTk
Sources:
http://magikarp46.com/dragonball/guid...

for quotes on Universe and kaioshin realm.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewt...

for quotes on Universe and kaioshin realm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S15Kf...

"No, the entire galaxy will cease to be"

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/03/...

"...he must not anger Birusu, lest he destroy not only the Earth, but the entire galaxy."

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translation...

"Who was it that sealed the Elder Kaiōshin away in the Z Sword?"
"The










Kaiōshin (who create planets) and the Gods of Destruction (who destroy them) have never gotten along that well, but once every 1,000 years they










go to each other’s realms and hold a coordination meeting. At this time, they got into an argument over some trifling thing, and a certain short-tempered God of Destruction sealed Elder Kaiōshin away inside a sword. Naturally, it wouldn’t have been proper for him to destroy the Kaiōshin Realm itself. By the way, that God of Destruction was Beerus."

http://imgur.com/a/zXRHw

Going










by this,SSjG should be universal at least.This makes sense considering Buu was said to be able to destroy the universe in a short amount of time if he was serious about it.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114283/3146598-goku+punch+planet.jpg

"a friend of mine made ​​a calculation taking into account other factors to measure the durability of the planet King Kai.

I'll show you the calcs.

The first calculation is figuring out the mass of the planet using gravity and radius since those are the two things we know.

The next step is Volume, using the radius.

And the third is density using the mass and volume we calced.

I also have links to a few calculators/convertors I checked the answers on.

Rearanged gravity formula to calculate mass instead (had to do short hand got formula from Wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_gravity

g = m/r^2

m = r^2 x g

Volume formula

V = (4/3) × pi × r^3

Density Formula

P = M/V

*Very good overall calculator

http://web2.0calc.com/

cm/g to m/kg calculator

http://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-density-from-gpercm3-to-kgperm3.html

Density calculator

http://www.smartconversion.com/unit_calculation/Density_calculator.aspx

Volume calculator

http://www.basic-mathematics.com/volume-of-a-sphere-calculator.html

Here's the actual calcs

g = m/r^2

m = r^2 x g

m = 0.0000156961230576^2 x 10

m = 0.0000000024636827904 earth masses

Earths mass = 5.97219 × 10^24 kilograms

5.97219 × 10^24 X 0.0000000024636827904 = 14,713,581,723,998,976

m = 14,713,581,723,998,976 kg

This considers King Kai's planet as 100m radius and 10X gravity.

The small number is the size of King Kai's planets radius in relation to Earths.

volume of a sphere is V = (4/3) × pi × r^3

V = (4/3) × pi × 100m^3 = 4188790.2047863905m^3

This is using King Kai's planet as 100m radius.

Knowing the mass and Volume we can get density.

P = M/V

P = 14713581723998976kg / 4188790.2047863905m^3

P = 3.512608892.9415128417291527 X 10^9 kg/m^3

Density










of a white dwarf star: "The average density of matter in a white dwarf must therefore be, very roughly, 1,000,000 times greater than the average density of the Sun, or approximately 10^6 g/cm3." Which translates to 10^9 kg/m^3. So in other words it is over 3.5 times as











dense as a white dwarf star.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_dwarf "

Keep










in mind this isn't the limit of how hard Goku can punch before becoming










a god.He should have solar system+ level punches by scaling.

Fat Buu was capable of destroying earth with his breath alone Babidi had too warn him not to breath to hard or he would
http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/214/39-012.0/compressed/391201.jpg
http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/214/39-012.0/compressed/391203.jpg
not to mention Frieza or Cold could had destroyed earth with a simple blast
http://imageshack.com/f/35/friezadestryongwith1bla.jpg
Hell,Recoome deflected Gohan's attack with his breath,& that blast was planet+ level at least.
http://xreader.net/Dragon-Ball/277#11

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/271089-goku_blocks_trunks_super.gif
"Let's










determine the force behind Trunks attacks first. He easily sliced Frieza (who already had HIGH planet durability. Then had his stats increased with the enhanced cybernetics) in half. So we're looking at a being who literally lived through a planet + spirit bomb, being chopped in half, getting hit by a planet busting Angry Kamehameha, then the explosion of planet Namek, then drifting in space with no food/water for










months, get chopped in half like a hot knife through butter by trunks and his sword. With all this said. I can honestly/legitimately claim that trunks can swing his sword hard enough to destroy earth 100x over. (And even that is low balling.) yet this 100x earth busting attack. Can't even damage Goku's finger. Which according to the brilliant math of reviewer03, only possesses 1/1000th of Goku's real power.had originally calculated Goku to be able to tear planets apart with full power punches but now I see that all it takes is a simple poke from




his finger....

And DC enigmas STILL HAVE THE NERVE to claim that DBZ isn't a ridiculously OP show. "

DBZ characters are massively faster than light(mftl).
For those who doubt light speed is ever stated(at 12 minutes & 40 seconds in)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdjtu0QdvmE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykh9joYnKGg
http://www.comicvine.com/dragon-balls/4055-46445/forums/finally-dbz-time-reaction-has-minimum-quantificati-754608/
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243021-kid_goku_laser_dodges_1_super.gif
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243018-kid_goku_aser_dodges_2_super.gif
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149746/3274855-3245560-catch%2Bdragon-ball.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243009-goku_8_arms_super.gif
http://s103.photobucket.com/user/kinasin/media/250661-goku_dodges_taiyoken1_super.jpg.html
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114806/3071780-8612189208-25066.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/250664-goku_dodges_taiyoken_3_super.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/576/304833-225121_picmoon1_super.jpg
Shortly before,Raditz dodged a faster blast
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140518175200/ultradragonball/images/thumb/8/80/Light_of_Death.jpg/185px-Light_of_Death.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/243939-radditz_speed4_super.jpg
Speed rises with power:
https://plus.google.com/110233506537878589617/posts/UYQZEFSmfJJ

Oh, also, I'm completely sold on the high tiers of DBZ prior to BoG being octillions of times FTL.
Screwattack believes Goku in his base, post-King Kai's training was about 9 times the speed of sound.
Vegeta was invisible to Goku prior to Goku using Kaio-Ken so Vegeta should be bare minimum 270 times the speed of sound.
Keep in mind Cui was equal to Vegeta prior to Vegeta's zenkai after the battle with the Earthlings yet Vegeta appears invisible to Cui right before murdering him so Vegeta post-zenkai should be 8,100 times the speed of sound.
Then post-zenkai Vegeta throws one of the Namekian dragon balls to keep it from the Ginyus yet Burter catches it and Vegeta was unable to see him only to turn around to see the Ginyus smirking with the dragon ball. Keep in mind, Burter did this without any apparent strain. Burter should be at least 243,000 times the speed of sound.
When Goku arrives on Namek, he warns Burter and Jeice to leave.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124813/2603104-goku_speed3.jpg
When he does such, Burter and Jeice were both unable to understand how he got there. They couldn't see him plain and simple. Goku should be at least 7,290,000 times the speed of sound. The speed of light is only 892,800 times the speed of sound making Goku effectively 8.16 times the speed of light. Keep in mind Ginyu could effectively become invisible to Goku making Ginyu 218,700,000 times the speed of sound or nearly 245 times the speed of light. When Ginyu gets his body back, he tried to switch bodies with Vegeta twice. The first time, Vegeta disappears and then reappears with a world of pain. Thus, Vegeta would be about 7,350 times the speed of light. Then, second form Frieza saw Vegeta trying to scatter away and he appeared in front of Vegeta the next instant. Frieza would then be 220,500 times the speed of light. Piccolo was above second form Frieza and third form Frieza appeared invisible when he wanted to scare Piccolo making him a whopping 6,615,000 times the speed of light. Vegeta is definitely stronger than third form Frieza as Piccolo thought he had a chance against final form Frieza. Yet if we give Vegeta third form Frieza's speed, it's still lacking in comparison to final form Frieza who flat out moves too fast for Vegeta's eyes to detect making Frieza at least 198,450,000 times the speed of light. Then Goku comes into the mix and appears invisible to Frieza while fighting him until Frieza starts stepping up his game. This would make Goku 5,953,500,000 times the speed of light. Frieza starts stepping up his game and disappears making him 178,605,000,000 times the speed of light. Goku sees Krillin die and turns SSJ. Frieza tries to kill Gohan and SSJ Goku appears out of seemingly thin air making him 5,358,150,000,000 times the speed of light.
Using Screwattack's s***ty math can even bring them to trillions of times FTL.
I'm pretty sure Raditz at his max could appear invisible to FTL Goku and Piccolo.
He alone is tens of times FTL. And since the Z-fighters were significantly above Raditz, I'm sure using Raditz speed for them is fine. I'm sure Nappa can appear invisible to them as well.
Then Goku can seem invisible to Nappa and Vegeta does the same to base Goku.


Skill:
Goku adapted to Roshi & came up with a fighting style to counter him.
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i009.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i010.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i011.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i012.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i013.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i014.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i015.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/04-048.0/compressed/i016.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s002.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s003.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s004.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/05-049.0/compressed/s005.jpg

DBZ filler AKA the anime is canon.

“Some of the filler most fans complain about as being non-canon material was actually Toriyama’s idea.”-from Kanzenshuu. “Toriyama: Dragon Ball, it’s the anime and the manga”.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/production/toriyama/
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/1226/422453-animeme4_super.jpg
Translation for the photo.
"12: From time to time, il would happen that people whom I didn’t even know were approaching me about the anime. Things were often said like: “Oh jeeze, between the manga and the anime, you must never take any time to let yourself breathe!". In reality, I had hardly worked at all on the anime, I had put confidence in my collaborators. I had enough to do just with the manga. I didn’t want to work myself to death, you know...
Toriyama: I want to live until I’m 100 years old!
13: For example, drawing an image of a movement in a manga is relatively simple, but to animate this image, you had to decompose the movement and draw all the intermediary movements. That demands a colossal amount of work. (Ok, the example of Kame-sennin might not be the most appropriate...)
14: Of course, those who have read Dragon Ball have noticed that certain stories which are found in the anime didn’t existed in the manga.
Oolong: What’s this? I never saw that in the manga....
ENstraight
As one adventure in the manga corresponds to about 10 minutes of animation, and since one episode comprises on average 30 minutes, the entire series of Dragon Ball would have passed by very quickly. The team of animators therefore had to insert some original stories. I admire what they have done, that’s a hell of a job!
Toriyama: Dragon Ball, it’s the anime and the manga!"



The battle:
Superman VS Goku 2 Death Battle Review - YouTube (debunking Screw Attack)

Superman vs Goku: An Objective Look - YouTube (GT vs Post-Crisis)

April 13, 2014 (Pre-Crisis vs Composite Movie Goku/Pre-God Goku)

The original post(posted by me):
https://plus.google.com/b/110233506537878589617/110233506537878589617/posts/7pWphQsgw6p?pageId=110233506537878589617
Also on:
Goku vs Superman


Image upload: 1280x720 totaling 232 KB's.

Screw attack already done that last year. Now there going to do a rematch.

goku123 : Screw Attack isn't accurate & has been debunked,don't bring it up if you want to be taken seriously.

   So, how would you explain strongest version of goku SSJGSSJ (full aura and all) being mortally wounded by a regular soldier laser? Isnt this a HUGE deal breaker regarding goku's limits?  I mean given superman its miles faster than Sorbet and can shoot far better more powerful beams how much harder would it be for him to pierce goku by surprise? .. Just like Sorbet did.

Colt3d :  La ultima transformacion de goku y le pueden hacer esto (estaba con la guardia…

WARNING WARNING MAJOR FUKKATSU NO F SPOILERS WARNING WARNING Gif created from…

So the laser thing shouldn't be used.

Thx for the response! Just so you know this Sorbet ring thing its something I'm struggling with to explain to myself as a DBZ fan since it just doesn't make any sense Toriyama allowed something like that to happen in a canon movie, I think there are no logical reasons behind this particular feat other than sheer plot but the thing is it did happen so I guess that makes this weakness official.

So for the sake of debate:

1) Goku was caught off guard so he didn't knew the laser was hitting him
2) There is no sign of ki aura so he was holding back his ki

Yes, Its made very clear in the movie this wound was caused by goku not expecting it but this leaves an official contemporary precedent of how extremely vulnerable goku can be to random attacks, objectively speaking being forced  to a near death situation whilst transformed on your ultimate form due to a simple minion attack by simply not being ready its not really an attribute of a dependable powerhouse fighter, I mean I think Goku should be able to take a beating like that without dying for Christ sake regardless if hes ready or not due to the sheer training he has realized and you can only hold back so much ki since despite not having any aura he was still transformed in SSJGSSJ, so unless his ki at that moment was intentionally even lower than the average frieza soldier (which would be a MASSIVE tune down of power from his part) its really puzzling how he ended up that bad while transformed even more since as you clearly state on this thread goku is far beyond the light speed reaction time and he should have seen that attack coming from miles away, at least with enough time to activate his ki endurance.

3) Its called PIS (Plot induced stupidity)

I agree on calling it plot stupidity , but also it could easily be called canon anyway which sadly its the base for all these arguments.

Colt3d : PIS shouldn't be taken seriously.I think it's PIS he was caught off guard since with Popo's training,it was established he can sense his environment.The 2nd one is suggested in the movie I think.Also it has been shown Goku's ki can drop even in a transformed state as Krillin hurt SSj Goku with a rock while he was relaxed,so he can suppress himself.Also there have een lasers to go ftl:
Laser smashes light-speed record - physicsworld.com
so we can't say the speed or the power of this one.
Superman has been blinded by a flashlight in "Superman Strength"(2005),which is PIS.

Supermatt6534 : so you should know in the new battle they mentioned superman lifting INFINITY and ETERNITY along with a black hole traveling 1 million times faster than light (and that's if it took him 10 minutes) and a few more that just make you take a step back and look at the whole battle itself. The reason they didn't do all that much research on goku is because it doesn't matter how powerful he is because he doesn't have infinite power! But don't get me wrong screw attack are REALLY bad with there research and I wouldn't believe any of there stuff without my own research.

cshack : Clearly you didn't even look at the evidence,because the evidence addresses & debunks those claims.Do not comment if you're not even going to read.

Supermatt6534 : I just looked at it all again you never mention those feats and your evidence didn't either

cshack : Stop lying,it's in the battle section near the bottom,& "more about Superman" near the middle.If you actually looked at my evidence,you would know this.I also gave evidence that travel speed =/= combat speed,which you also ignored.

Supermatt6534 : still have one question...why? Why do you care enough to put hours on hours of research just to prove someone wrong about something that no one should care about in the first place? It really doesn't make sense to me sorry if that offends you or anything but I really don't see the point.

cshack : Because I got bored.I don't see why my personal reasoning should matter.

Supermatt6534 : fair enough well bye

I can't seem to stop swearing. I apologize.

~J

shakescakes297 : I don't see what that has to do with this.I don't see any other comments from you on here,so it seems weird you would just say that.

Supermatt6534 : Sorry, I didn't type that. It got edited by a mod. I used the S-word, (even though it was censored) 

I apoligise for Jordan making any confusion. That's partially his fault.

Anyway, here is a censored version my original post:  

While Goku can beat the bajeebees out of Superman pretty good, Superman would still win, or at least not die, because the only things that can kill him are Kryptonite, Magic, anything under a red sun, a black hole, and telepathy/mind control.

Superman would lose a fight, but he wouldn't lose his life.

shakescakes297 : How is it my fault that you don't seem to want to follow the rules? I don't feel like going in and editing out each and every instance of a word. It's in no way my fault. You need to follow the rules of the site. Then this problem wouldn't exist. Plain and simple.

shakescakes297 : You don't need to be killed to lose a fight,also the guides make it clear blunt force can be enough to kill him (i.e. almost dying against Doomsday).A black hole isn't even galaxy level last I checked.