Ferdinand : Be careful when advocating for things "to be left to the states." If it creates arbitrary criminals or second-class citizens, it is NOT acceptable and yes, the federal government must step it. The best example is interracial marriages. Loving and his wife were living their merry life and were not (I hope) bothering anyone until they got arrested for violating "the law."

Of course, the present debate might not even exist if the federal government did not have such an overbearing influence over matrimony and relationships in general - there are over 1000 benefits that come with marriage.

NameEntry : I do not understand these conservatives either. I mean, the "traditional definition" of marriage HAS changed, especially since Henry VIII... Also, while there have been many closeted bashers, are there really that many of them? The usual statistics says that 10 percent of the population is gay.

janus : That's a double-edged sword man, but the states already set their own laws regarding age of consent for example. Like I said, it's not that I'm against gay marriage, I'm only against it being used as a ploy for the fed to gain more overreach into daily affairs of citizens. Which it already does. I'm really against the government forcing citizens to act against their own values under the threat of violence. Speaking of creating criminals. One person's rights shouldn't trump anyone else's. And it's not just conservative Christians who are against gay marriage. Again. They just make easy targets.

janus : Like I posted, when someone is very vehement against something, there's usually a reason.

Let's go by the US census population clock and say there's about 322 million people in America right now. By your statement, ten percent of Americans would be gay. That's over thirty-two million people. Let's go by a four percent figure I read elsewhere. That's still almost thirteen million people "identifying" as LGBT and how many more do you think are closeted hate-cases who bash being gay?

OMG..

Ferdinand : I am completely with you when it comes to Federal overreach. Federalism exists for a reason: to each level its responsibilities, and even more so in the US since federal powers are enumerated. Nevertheless, such separation allowed for slavery (and after that, Jim Crow laws) to put down too many people for over 150 years.

Also, I am "against" gay marriages (even though I profited from the repel of DOMA to get my green card). And "straight" marriages. NEITHER should be ruled by the state. What children need are loving parents that will raise them to be respectable adults. In New France, Intendant Jean Talon forced everyone (girls over 12, guys over 14) to get married or be fined. The colony's population doubled within 10 years... but was there any love in those marriages?

NameEntry : No doubt that MANY of them are closeted, but the MAJORITY of them? Besides, that figure only seems to be a statistical approximation; I have never heard of a "serious" study confirming it.

janus : That's why we can have guns now. haha! Hard to enslave a man who's armed. Unless they go willingly. Like most of us do..... Hey and don't forget, a lot of women were against equal rights. At least as far as having to earn a living. Kind of wish I had that option some times. Get married, have kids, raise them and go to PTA meetings instead of a 9-5 job.