Before one can answer the thread question, there is another question that essentially needs answering first, but I will only briefly touch on this since it's a topic that has been discussed extensively in the past.  So the question is, what evidence do you have that God exists?

The universe itself is evidence that God exists.  Billions of galaxies, stars, planets, moons.  How did they come to exist?  Apparently philosophers and thinkers through the ages have narrowed the explanations down into three options:

1.  The universe is eternal - If this is the case, then there is no need for a Creator, because the universe has just always been
2.  The universe created itself - Again, no need for God.  It brought itself into existence.
3.  The universe was created by someone or something outside of itself - God.

So let's take a look at each option and consider which one is the most reasonable explanation.  
Number one - The universe is eternal.  This has been utterly rejected by the scientific community, because astronomers have pointed to things like background radiation echo, motion of the galaxies, second law of thermodynamics and other evidences all of which led them to conclude that the universe had a beginning.  So option 1 is eliminated.
Number two - The universe created itself.  This is philosophically impossible and even logically absurd.  Before the universe existed, it would not have been around to do the creating.  A non-existent universe could obviously not have done anything.  It did not exist.  So there goes option 2.
Number three - Something or someone outside of the universe created it.  This is the option that both reason and the evidence point to.

This can go on forever so I'll stop here for now.  So if the universe demands a creator, then it logically follows that God, the Creator, also requires a maker.  So who made God?

The simple answer is - nobody.  The universe is finite, in other words it had a beginning that it began to exist.  Unlike the finite universe that demands a creator, God does not need a creator.  Why?  Because God is eternal.  He has always existed and someone that has always existed does not need a creator or someone to have brought Him into existence.  Again, the universe falls into an entirely different category.  It has not always existed as scientific discoveries have shown and anything that begins to exist requires a cause or a maker.  Nothing does not produce something.  Just think through this logically and keep this in mind - something must have always existed.  If nothing cannot produce something and yet something exists, then it follows necessarily that something has always existed in order to bring the something into existence.  Look at it this way:  If there was ever a time that absolutely nothing existed, nothing would exist now.  Something in fact does exist now.  Therefore, there was never a time that absolutely nothing existed.

So again, to answer the question, Who made God?  The answer is, no one.  God is eternal and does not need a maker.  He has no beginning and He will have no end.  Although we are so used to thinking that everything must have a beginning, there had to be something that existed eternally.  You have to consequently choose between "this something" being an infinite personal God who has always existed or lifeless impersonal matter.  Just looking at humans who each has it's own unique features and colorful personalities, I would go with the former since an impersonal being cannot create personal beings.

Good thread! The moment I saw the title I was wondering what it was about! And, I have to agree, no one created God, if someone did, then who created them? It would be an endless cycle of who created him? God has no beginning, and no end! Just as a line in geometry, it extends indefinately in both directions, that is the same with God's existence!

As many here know, I am a theist. But honestly, I do not think this is a good argument at all. It is a common one too. The reason why it is not good is because it is hypocritical. Basically what you are saying is that "the Universe can't be eternal because that is absurd", but then "God can be eternal, that is not absurd". The Supernatural Clause many theists use is nothing more than a scapegoat to justify the fact that they are rejecting one idea based off of certain principals but ignore those exact same principals with their own view.
First, relying on 3 possibilities made by ancient philosophers is a mistake. Ancient philosophy views have been shown to be wrong numerous times, so assuming that the only 3 things they could think of are the only possibilities is a bit silly to use as arguments.
Touching on the eternal universe bit. Yes, the Universe as far as current things in it (stars, nebulas, planets, other celestial bodies) had a beginning. But the farthest our knowledge reaches is what evidence points to as far as what the universe was like right before energy was converted into matter. Beyond that point in time is something that no credible scientists claims to know or understand. So to say that eternal universe is absurd because our observations of our current universe doesn't explain how it got there is not only unfair, but hypocritical. It is no less absurd to say that the Universe is eternal, but we just don't yet (and maybe never will) understand it because the point in time before the singularity didn't follow the same laws of physics that the current universe follows now. After all, gravity is the force that determines almost every observation of physics we have. The conditions of gravity would be shaped once the universe starts expanding, so it is more than reasonable to hypothesize that we can't apply the laws of physics developed in an existing universe to conditions of that universe moments before that universe's expansion/development.
Wrapping it up, your arguments fall back on the common argument of "I can't personally conceive of the idea that the uniqueness of people and the vastness of the Universe can be here without a personal being, therefore it MUST be a personal being". Just because you can't understand or conceive the idea, doesn't mean it is impossible. Fact of the matter is, neither the theist or atheist side have tangible (non personal testimonial) evidence that has any proves their view on this matter. So for the atheist group to attack the theist group on this absurd because lack of any evidence on both sides. But it is equally absurd for the theist group to attack the atheist view because feelings is not evidence, the view is accepted on Faith. My view is based on Faith, and I am not afraid to admit that there is no real proof to back up my religious view. I would be lying if I claimed that there is.
But again, don't rely on ancient philosophy to be the structural base of your argument. Ancient philosophers once couldn't begin to believe that the Earth was round and not the center of the Universe. With all the things they were shown to be wrong on, to say that the only 3 options they could think of for something as complex as the beginning of the Universe are the only options is an argument that doesn't have a leg to stand on.

rcarter2 :  I didn't mean for this to turn into a debate / argument, but since you've taken it there I'll "reason" with you.  You are assuming a lot of things and adding a few things that I haven't even said.  To start off with and I don't mean to nitpick, but I did not say "ancient" philosophers.  Of course philosophers from 100 years ago would've had completely different views than what they have now.  That's why I specifically stated "philosophers and thinkers through the ages..."  This includes philosophers from this time as well.  I probably should have said, "philosophers down through the ages..." Anyway, it's not important.   Also, I honestly don't see why you view the rejection of "the universe can't be eternal" option as being "hypocritical".  Even atheists agree (physicist Lawrence Krauss being the biggest one) that the universe had a starting point, so it couldn't have been eternal.  It doesn't get more logical than that. If the universe had a beginning, then it must have a cause, and therefore cannot be eternal.  Every effect must resemble its cause. This is because, simply put, you cannot give what you do not have, so it is impossible for an effect to possess something its originating cause did not have. That being the case, how can one believe that an impersonal, amoral, purposeless, and meaningless universe accidentally created beings that are full of personality, morals, meaning, and purpose? Only mind can create mind. In the end it is either matter before mind or mind before matter, and all scientific, philosophical, and reasonable evidence points to the latter.  

SoL@R :

I would say, yeah. Since, nothing won't create itself, nor come into being on it's own, the only conclusion left is someone must have created it, with a high enough intelligence to do so, and God really is the only way to go.

Now, if people would just do what he says!

I believe that God made the universe despite all the science videos, no matter how deep they are, that I've seen before (including 2 of them this week) I learned so much about the big bang theory, including that elements were created during the explosion and everything fell into place.

What I believe is that the big bang happened, but that God made that explosion happen. Everything fell into place and nature and space is almost if not completely perfect. Can such huge perfection like that really happen by itself?

PacmanandMariofan: I would make a thread about this if you are willing to discuss it. 

But why would a perfect God use imperfection to make a world? Why do I state it that way? Because, mutation is a problem, in no point in the history of man-kind has a mutation helped anyone. Color blindness is more of a disability than an ability... 

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..." Not, in the beginning he let the heavens and the earth evolve. 

It's important that we believe what the Bible states, not what we think! If anyone knows a false belief I have, I encourage them to talk to me about it... It's not important what I believe, but what the Bible says! 

Don't think that I'm attacking you, I just would like to discuss this, if you are willing to.

darthyoda : I'm willing to discuss it in a thread, especially since I'm a new Christian (well, I've believed in God almost all my life but I've never tried to make Him greatly involved in my life) and I need to learn a lot.

To be honest, I've really been slacking on reading the Bible (I've read a devotional book almost every day though, and I'm aware that reading the Bible is one of the most important things to do as a Christian), but I read that verse, as well as the rest of the first 2 chapters of Genesis, about a month ago.

I thought that maybe since it didn't say how He created the heavens and the earth, maybe He created it by initiating the big bang and guiding everything (earth, the elements, etc.) into place. I see now that I was wrong, and I'm perfectly OK with that! This is a tough subject but like I said I'm willing to discuss it.

darthyoda :
PacmanandMariofan :  

@Pacman - Well in a sense you are "right" about the Big Bang.  God said, "Let there be light" and BANG!  There it was ;D  Things however did not take its own course from there and happened to fall in place by accident.  God specifically placed the stars and the planets where He wanted them.  He knows how many stars there are and He even gave them names!  "He counts the number of the stars; He calls them all by name." (Psalm 147:4)

Also just as a side note - God DID make the world perfect in the beginning.  Just keep that in mind.  EVERYTHING was perfect.  It is because of and since the Fall (Eve and Adam disobeying God and eating the forbidden fruit) that everything started to deteriorate.  All of creation shows the effect of this curse.  That's why there's cancer, AIDS, flu, weeds, thorns, predators, hate, selfishness, hard labor, tiredness and the list goes on.  For the believer, this is a reality but also not the end of all things as there is an amazing hope and promise that awaits those who believes and trusts in God.  He is coming again and He will make ALL things new.  
"Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” (Revelation 21:5)  and also,
"...God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:4)

I made a thread, so if you want to, we can keep this on topic, and discuss this on the other thread.

https://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=85753 

SoL@R :
rcarter2 :


What carter is trying to say, is that it's kind of hypocritical that you say "Nothing does not produce something." An important thing to remember is that Christians say EVERYTHING has to have a creator, in this case, God. They are contradicting themselves with this statement. If everything has to have a creator, who created God? You say that he has no creator, but the statement, "Everything has to have a creator of some sort" contradicts this.

darthyoda : Colourblindness isn't a disability. It just makes the world beautiful colours a different beautiful colour.

SilverHyruler : I'm color blind... I can't see certain colors, which in some cases gives me a disadvantage... But don't forget to add to discussion, as that is a different topic.

It would be completely impossible for someone to have created god. If someone did create God, we would have heard about him/her in the Bible. We are taught that god created The World, Adam, then Eve. We are also taught that no power is greater than God's will. If there is no power greater than that. Then God had no beginning and has no end. He goes on forever helping people who need help.

Person if someone created God then someone had to create the God That created God and someone had to create the God that Created the God that created God. So if that were the case then there would be a infinite amount of Gods creating Gods infinitely thus creates something I call The God Paradox.

Who created god? Easy, the guy who came up with the name. Because I doubt someone would pick a name like that :V


Maybe his real name is Phil? World may never know.

18mlivingston :

Last I checked the God paradox was still more likely then nothing creating itself. At least Gods can create more Gods just like that.

LunarDarkness2 :

That may be true. And you can debate, or talk to people holding them to everything they say and it's technical definition. But I'm pretty sure you know that when they say that Everything needs to be created, that they did no include God in the spectrum.

paper luigi :

I saw you said that you were waiting for the dislikes on someone's profile.

I agree that the dislikes were a bad idea for this site, and many people abuse them. But I would like to point out something.

Your post states an idea. A short idea, and it suggests that humans came up with the concept of God.

But, that has already been posted, and I don't believe your on track with where the conversation has gone in this thread.

You see, I don't mean to offend you, but your post doesn't really offer anything helpful to the conversation. Also, you can gain a lot of respect by not just merely stating your opinion, but explaining your reasoning behind it, so that others can understand.

I'm not trying to put you down, and I may have completely overlooked what you intended, and maybe I am completely off.

If so, I apologize.

But here, take what I've said and think about it.

I think it'll help you get your trusted position back.



-----------

I think a lot of people misunderstand just what God is. From the Bible's perspective. What the Bible tells us about Him. His characteristics, and limitations. Sol@r summed it up pretty well.

There is not way this Universe could come into existence on it's own. The rules we know it operates by, would be in complete violation of that. Either way you are violating the rules.

You can either say.

A. Stuff happened on it's own

or

B. A creator made this place.


A creator makes everything he want right there and then.

Stuff just coming into existence just somehow comes into existence with no thought or purpose.

Sword legion : The 'Waiting for dislikes' was a joke about this forum.

And, what I was saying is that humans came up with the name. What we call God could be different from what he calls himself.

Random idea, seemed funny enough to me. Posting material. Close enough to TdV too.

paper luigi :

Try the debate forum when talking about dislikes.

Although an attempt at humor, I don't really recommend it here. Alright?

TDV is what people make of it. You can spam, or not. Whatever people choose. To be honest, I didn't like TDV at first either, but I've seen a few good ones. (The yellow jeresy is fun. . . )

Anyways, I think you get the point. Just no more of that. Okay?

son of god?
or maybe he is just a ordinary person that became a god
because many people say that.