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Would you respect a Transgendered person?

 

02-18-15 08:36 PM
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mrfe : I understand your sentiment, but remember that you are taking some literal meanings to hear here. The "phobia" in transphobia, as is the case with homophobia, refers more to contempt and mistreatment than to fear.

Also please do mind that being transgender isn't an illness, and I never stated that. Dysphoria, which is the feeling that transgendered people experience when in the wrong body and being treated as the wrong gender is the actual condition. The treatment for dysphoria is transition, that is in most cases to undergo body-altering procedures and to be treated as the correct gender (by correct I mean the one they identify as)  And remember this is not me saying that, it's the APA. Attempting to "treat" trans people by making them conform to the gender assigned to them at birth is ineffective and often harmful, and is known to end fatally (again see: Leelah Alcorn) So I'm not "fighting for their right to have this condition" I'm fighting for their right to not be hurt and abused  by people exacerbating the effects of the condition, and for people to allow their treatment (transition).

Also transgender people do not "change their gender based on feelings." There is ample evidence demonstrating differences in brain chemistry between transgendered people and cisgendered (i.e. that are ok with he gender they were assigned at birth) people. It usually can take a while for a trans person to discover their gender, that doesn't mean they are changing it. Trans people did not make a choice, their brain is wired a different way, and it is very demeaning of you to disregard their very palpable situation as "feelings"

I'm asking, pleading, on behalf of the underrepresented trans community: don't misgender trans people, you're doing more harm than you think.

Your position is religiously motivated, and I imagine that you are staunch, but I ask of you to consider for a second that trans people have done nothing to deserve abuse, that your religious views may be cool and groovy, but it's oppressing and pushing innocent people to the edge of suicide.
mrfe : I understand your sentiment, but remember that you are taking some literal meanings to hear here. The "phobia" in transphobia, as is the case with homophobia, refers more to contempt and mistreatment than to fear.

Also please do mind that being transgender isn't an illness, and I never stated that. Dysphoria, which is the feeling that transgendered people experience when in the wrong body and being treated as the wrong gender is the actual condition. The treatment for dysphoria is transition, that is in most cases to undergo body-altering procedures and to be treated as the correct gender (by correct I mean the one they identify as)  And remember this is not me saying that, it's the APA. Attempting to "treat" trans people by making them conform to the gender assigned to them at birth is ineffective and often harmful, and is known to end fatally (again see: Leelah Alcorn) So I'm not "fighting for their right to have this condition" I'm fighting for their right to not be hurt and abused  by people exacerbating the effects of the condition, and for people to allow their treatment (transition).

Also transgender people do not "change their gender based on feelings." There is ample evidence demonstrating differences in brain chemistry between transgendered people and cisgendered (i.e. that are ok with he gender they were assigned at birth) people. It usually can take a while for a trans person to discover their gender, that doesn't mean they are changing it. Trans people did not make a choice, their brain is wired a different way, and it is very demeaning of you to disregard their very palpable situation as "feelings"

I'm asking, pleading, on behalf of the underrepresented trans community: don't misgender trans people, you're doing more harm than you think.

Your position is religiously motivated, and I imagine that you are staunch, but I ask of you to consider for a second that trans people have done nothing to deserve abuse, that your religious views may be cool and groovy, but it's oppressing and pushing innocent people to the edge of suicide.
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mrfe : I respect all of your opinions and all, but some of that stuff was awful and just overall rude. I don't want my post to be rude, but I just have to make that clear here at the start.

Not to say you can't think what you want to think, I'm just saying that by the way you said everything, it came off as rude and arrogant. I mean, I get your whole point about the bible, but I just don't think that is overall accurate.

"If your gender matters so little that you can change it based on feelings, why can't I call you what I want based on my own feelings? Why does the pronoun I use to refer to you matter, if you can change your gender based on feelings?"

Well, you can. You don't really get the chance to understand all of this unless you are in that kind of situation, being a transgender and just getting all of that hate from people. If you want to call someone the opposite of what they want based on your own opinion, go ahead but that person WILL be affected. If someone knows that this person hates what they want to be and just calls them the opposite, then that really does affect the person who you are talking to. Sometimes it is just better to save someone else's feelings by calling them what they believe themselves to be, then just go on your own opinions, which really they normally don't care about. Overall yes, if you want to call someone a boy and they want to be called a girl, then go ahead, but you really do have no idea how much that affects them.

Leggy was right. How? Well, you are a man. This is just on that whole thing of just being a nice person. Some people really do believe that they didn't get the luck of the draw and turned out as the opposite of what they wanted to be. If someone desires to be different, why won't you just let them at least think they're different. If people trick them into thinking they're different, that means just about everything to them.

Now your last sentence in the part after what leggy said, was awful. You could not have POSSIBLY phrased that worse. You aren't bowing down to someone who just wants to be a different person. And a waste of energy? That is rude and just disrespectful. That little section was really unnecessary for you to say.

Well, I can't disagree with you about God. I do believe that God does create us from the beginning to the end. But, sometimes God just doesn't match up the right soul with the right person. This may sound weird, but that isn't a mistake, it is just fate that you won't be who you want to be. This whole religion thing is something I can't really argue with or for, but I believe that God put us all together and didn't make a mistake, but everything just didn't come out perfect. But really, it is perfectly reasonable that people change their minds, and do go against God. That isn't a sin though, as it is kind of your decision and not one God should be able to make for you.Taking religion into this is only something that may win over Christians, as you said later "Of course, if you're not a Bible-believing Christian, everything I just said is completely worthless to you." so those people who aren't Bible-believing Christians, have less of a chance with siding with you, but for people like you, that is a pretty good point, I just don't say the same thing.

Again, in NO way is being transgender a sin. That again is really something that would have been best if you left out. If you really think that not liking who you are (aka the person God made you) than do you think you're perfect? Being transgender is just like people thinking other bad things about themselves, its nothing too huge. That spot just shouldn't be added, but I do kind of get where you are coming from with that.

Gender is always relative. With this you are also going against genderfluid people, and that really isn't at all the point of this thread so I won't touch on that but gender is a whole bunch of things. The fact is, gender doesn't say what you are; that is the job of sex. You can be a girl, but be male. If your gender is the opposite of your sex, then that is how it is. Just to say, if someone is genderfluid, then it is fine to call them by their sex as they are always changing, but transgender people RARELY think differently as according to what you said, " I don't have the time, energy, or patience to bow to your pronoun desires. It's wasted energy, imo." it doesn't really take all too much energy to say "she" instead of "he" and "he" instead of "she". It really isn't hard to refer to someone as something else, and if you don't really respect their choices to want to be that, then you have it all wrong. I mean, yes you are entitled to your opinion, but just don't be rude about it.

I would really prefer that you don't break out all of those other things you said you "may end up explaining other facets of transgenderedness that I chose not to touch on today." but feel free too, and I'll be very willing to explain all of this to you, as I think it is important for people to really try to go about this whole situation with all the transgendered people carefully, and not just go spouting out opinion, as yeah, that does hurt transgendered people.

And no, being transgendered is not a physiological condition that can be treated. You can't tell people what they have to think and you defiantly can't cure the fact that people don't like who they are. And really, fighting over it is absolutely not what we should be doing, but as you know, people get defensive about what they strongly believe in, and respect for transgendered people is what I VERY strongly believe in.
mrfe : I respect all of your opinions and all, but some of that stuff was awful and just overall rude. I don't want my post to be rude, but I just have to make that clear here at the start.

Not to say you can't think what you want to think, I'm just saying that by the way you said everything, it came off as rude and arrogant. I mean, I get your whole point about the bible, but I just don't think that is overall accurate.

"If your gender matters so little that you can change it based on feelings, why can't I call you what I want based on my own feelings? Why does the pronoun I use to refer to you matter, if you can change your gender based on feelings?"

Well, you can. You don't really get the chance to understand all of this unless you are in that kind of situation, being a transgender and just getting all of that hate from people. If you want to call someone the opposite of what they want based on your own opinion, go ahead but that person WILL be affected. If someone knows that this person hates what they want to be and just calls them the opposite, then that really does affect the person who you are talking to. Sometimes it is just better to save someone else's feelings by calling them what they believe themselves to be, then just go on your own opinions, which really they normally don't care about. Overall yes, if you want to call someone a boy and they want to be called a girl, then go ahead, but you really do have no idea how much that affects them.

Leggy was right. How? Well, you are a man. This is just on that whole thing of just being a nice person. Some people really do believe that they didn't get the luck of the draw and turned out as the opposite of what they wanted to be. If someone desires to be different, why won't you just let them at least think they're different. If people trick them into thinking they're different, that means just about everything to them.

Now your last sentence in the part after what leggy said, was awful. You could not have POSSIBLY phrased that worse. You aren't bowing down to someone who just wants to be a different person. And a waste of energy? That is rude and just disrespectful. That little section was really unnecessary for you to say.

Well, I can't disagree with you about God. I do believe that God does create us from the beginning to the end. But, sometimes God just doesn't match up the right soul with the right person. This may sound weird, but that isn't a mistake, it is just fate that you won't be who you want to be. This whole religion thing is something I can't really argue with or for, but I believe that God put us all together and didn't make a mistake, but everything just didn't come out perfect. But really, it is perfectly reasonable that people change their minds, and do go against God. That isn't a sin though, as it is kind of your decision and not one God should be able to make for you.Taking religion into this is only something that may win over Christians, as you said later "Of course, if you're not a Bible-believing Christian, everything I just said is completely worthless to you." so those people who aren't Bible-believing Christians, have less of a chance with siding with you, but for people like you, that is a pretty good point, I just don't say the same thing.

Again, in NO way is being transgender a sin. That again is really something that would have been best if you left out. If you really think that not liking who you are (aka the person God made you) than do you think you're perfect? Being transgender is just like people thinking other bad things about themselves, its nothing too huge. That spot just shouldn't be added, but I do kind of get where you are coming from with that.

Gender is always relative. With this you are also going against genderfluid people, and that really isn't at all the point of this thread so I won't touch on that but gender is a whole bunch of things. The fact is, gender doesn't say what you are; that is the job of sex. You can be a girl, but be male. If your gender is the opposite of your sex, then that is how it is. Just to say, if someone is genderfluid, then it is fine to call them by their sex as they are always changing, but transgender people RARELY think differently as according to what you said, " I don't have the time, energy, or patience to bow to your pronoun desires. It's wasted energy, imo." it doesn't really take all too much energy to say "she" instead of "he" and "he" instead of "she". It really isn't hard to refer to someone as something else, and if you don't really respect their choices to want to be that, then you have it all wrong. I mean, yes you are entitled to your opinion, but just don't be rude about it.

I would really prefer that you don't break out all of those other things you said you "may end up explaining other facets of transgenderedness that I chose not to touch on today." but feel free too, and I'll be very willing to explain all of this to you, as I think it is important for people to really try to go about this whole situation with all the transgendered people carefully, and not just go spouting out opinion, as yeah, that does hurt transgendered people.

And no, being transgendered is not a physiological condition that can be treated. You can't tell people what they have to think and you defiantly can't cure the fact that people don't like who they are. And really, fighting over it is absolutely not what we should be doing, but as you know, people get defensive about what they strongly believe in, and respect for transgendered people is what I VERY strongly believe in.
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mrfe : Transgender people don't just change their gender randomly based on their feelings it's the way they are and the way their brain is wired. While it may be possible that there are people doing it to get attention, those are in the minority and referring to all transgendered people as doing such is quite inconsiderate.

What is the harm in letting a person identify the gender they want to be identified as? That doesn't stop them from being rational thinking human beings who can contribute to society just as much as anyone else can. It doesn't really require much of "your energy" to refer them as the pronoun, it's not like everyone out there is transgender. You're not bowing down to them you're doing it as a sign of you respecting that person.

Now while I'm an atheist and I don't think my mindset about that will change anytime soon, if we assume that there is a god, why would he then create people with this kind of mindset if he doesn't want them to identify as the opposite gender? If god is all knowning and perfect why would he allow this to happen in the first place? Not trying to start a religious debate here just wanting to give a different way of seeing it.

No identifying as a transgendered person isn't a psychological condition (not neccesairly implying that you think it is just clarifying) in the same way as other psychological conditions. Like I said identifying as the opposite gender does not in any way shape or form stop them from doing any normal action or keep from being normal rational thinking human beings, unlike autism which has very clear effects on a humans development.
mrfe : Transgender people don't just change their gender randomly based on their feelings it's the way they are and the way their brain is wired. While it may be possible that there are people doing it to get attention, those are in the minority and referring to all transgendered people as doing such is quite inconsiderate.

What is the harm in letting a person identify the gender they want to be identified as? That doesn't stop them from being rational thinking human beings who can contribute to society just as much as anyone else can. It doesn't really require much of "your energy" to refer them as the pronoun, it's not like everyone out there is transgender. You're not bowing down to them you're doing it as a sign of you respecting that person.

Now while I'm an atheist and I don't think my mindset about that will change anytime soon, if we assume that there is a god, why would he then create people with this kind of mindset if he doesn't want them to identify as the opposite gender? If god is all knowning and perfect why would he allow this to happen in the first place? Not trying to start a religious debate here just wanting to give a different way of seeing it.

No identifying as a transgendered person isn't a psychological condition (not neccesairly implying that you think it is just clarifying) in the same way as other psychological conditions. Like I said identifying as the opposite gender does not in any way shape or form stop them from doing any normal action or keep from being normal rational thinking human beings, unlike autism which has very clear effects on a humans development.
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Like anyone, I would respect a trangendering person as long he or she respected me back . I have a friend here who is transgendered, and I see no reason for me to look at her in any other way than I look at my friends who are not transgendered.

TheJmsGamer : *Hugs* !

Here is question for those who believe homosexuality or bisexuality or transgender is a choice, though - if being attracted to people of the same sex or being attracted to people of either the same or opposite sexes is a choice, I'd like a description of what you believe the scene of the choice being made would look like. I am NOT trying to be disrespectful to you in any way, but just entertain me, please .

Anyway, I find it kind of strange that people who believe homosexuality and all that is a choice (SPECIFICALLY a sin) due to their faith stating that God does not make mistakes, whereas people are being born with horrible, horrible diseases, and they are not blamed on God. Like... what ?

Do people "choose" to have autism? Do people "choose" to have cancer? I could go on forever here.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in God (and I am PERFECTLY fine with those who don't ), and I do NOT believe He makes mistakes. I believe He is love, kindness, and good stuff, and He placed all the cells on Earth and monitored them while they were evolving or something . Yeah, I am a bit scientific. But when a mistake happens, it is not because of Him.

I believe violating other people's rights is sinful. I believe murdering is sinful, I believe physically harming others is sinful, I believe emotionally harming others is sinful, but I do not believe loving others is sinful, and that's what these people do. They LOVE. I do NOT find ANYTHING to do with LOVE sinful.

Transgendered people who do not violate other people's rights should not be disrespected at all. They mind their own business, so you should mind yours likewise.


mrfe : Oh, cool! I did not agree with all of your post, but I definitely agreed with some of it ! The whole "hate the sin, not the sinner" thing is something I live by. I try not to "hate" altogether, but there are definitely some things that irritate me a lot . It's so cool that you respect the people, though, even though it's not their (what you call) choices . That's all I needed to know for me to still consider you "cool", ha, ha . *High fives*!

As for me, I'm not transgendered, and I like guys . I do sometimes wonder how life might be easier as a guy, though xD. Anyway, that's all from me for this post!

I love all of you guys < 3!
Like anyone, I would respect a trangendering person as long he or she respected me back . I have a friend here who is transgendered, and I see no reason for me to look at her in any other way than I look at my friends who are not transgendered.

TheJmsGamer : *Hugs* !

Here is question for those who believe homosexuality or bisexuality or transgender is a choice, though - if being attracted to people of the same sex or being attracted to people of either the same or opposite sexes is a choice, I'd like a description of what you believe the scene of the choice being made would look like. I am NOT trying to be disrespectful to you in any way, but just entertain me, please .

Anyway, I find it kind of strange that people who believe homosexuality and all that is a choice (SPECIFICALLY a sin) due to their faith stating that God does not make mistakes, whereas people are being born with horrible, horrible diseases, and they are not blamed on God. Like... what ?

Do people "choose" to have autism? Do people "choose" to have cancer? I could go on forever here.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in God (and I am PERFECTLY fine with those who don't ), and I do NOT believe He makes mistakes. I believe He is love, kindness, and good stuff, and He placed all the cells on Earth and monitored them while they were evolving or something . Yeah, I am a bit scientific. But when a mistake happens, it is not because of Him.

I believe violating other people's rights is sinful. I believe murdering is sinful, I believe physically harming others is sinful, I believe emotionally harming others is sinful, but I do not believe loving others is sinful, and that's what these people do. They LOVE. I do NOT find ANYTHING to do with LOVE sinful.

Transgendered people who do not violate other people's rights should not be disrespected at all. They mind their own business, so you should mind yours likewise.


mrfe : Oh, cool! I did not agree with all of your post, but I definitely agreed with some of it ! The whole "hate the sin, not the sinner" thing is something I live by. I try not to "hate" altogether, but there are definitely some things that irritate me a lot . It's so cool that you respect the people, though, even though it's not their (what you call) choices . That's all I needed to know for me to still consider you "cool", ha, ha . *High fives*!

As for me, I'm not transgendered, and I like guys . I do sometimes wonder how life might be easier as a guy, though xD. Anyway, that's all from me for this post!

I love all of you guys < 3!
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I can't put this any more simply than this. Yes.
I can't put this any more simply than this. Yes.
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camkunimura : I really am stumped as to how I should answer this. In reality, I disapprove of gays, trannys, and all the rest. I believe that GOD created us the way he wanted us to be. But as much as it sickens me that people do these kinds of things, I do really feel sorry for them in a way. I feel like they do it because they are still searching for who they are, because they refused their original identity, but if it would help them to find who they really are, I guess yes, I would still respect them. We are to hate the sin and not the sinner as Christians. So I believe this might fall under that. But don't think that would mean that I approve of it.
camkunimura : I really am stumped as to how I should answer this. In reality, I disapprove of gays, trannys, and all the rest. I believe that GOD created us the way he wanted us to be. But as much as it sickens me that people do these kinds of things, I do really feel sorry for them in a way. I feel like they do it because they are still searching for who they are, because they refused their original identity, but if it would help them to find who they really are, I guess yes, I would still respect them. We are to hate the sin and not the sinner as Christians. So I believe this might fall under that. But don't think that would mean that I approve of it.
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FaithFighter : thank you but in the LGBT community, we don't want or need your pity, your approval, and your opinion is my worth my time or any of our time. Also don't ever use the slur tranny.
FaithFighter : thank you but in the LGBT community, we don't want or need your pity, your approval, and your opinion is my worth my time or any of our time. Also don't ever use the slur tranny.
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I would respect them in the sense that I wouldn't make fun of them about it or try to convince them not to be transgendered. But, I would not call a guy a girl, or the other way around. I see that as special treatment, not respect, and that wouldn't exactly be equal, would it?

From my point of view, if I respect a guy's decision to want to be a girl, he should also respect my decision to refer to him as male.
I would respect them in the sense that I wouldn't make fun of them about it or try to convince them not to be transgendered. But, I would not call a guy a girl, or the other way around. I see that as special treatment, not respect, and that wouldn't exactly be equal, would it?

From my point of view, if I respect a guy's decision to want to be a girl, he should also respect my decision to refer to him as male.
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I won't lie with someone about themselves.

The only part about this, that I am not sure about is if they actually got the sex change, however, then I thought about those rare situations in which a male has to have their testicles taken off or something.

Cancer is one such situation if I recall correctly.

If gender is decided by your sex organs purely, then what do we call those guys?

Well, he still has the physical brain of a man, the bones, and the DNA.

When he talks he'll sound like a man, and his head is even going to be shaped differently from a woman. Of course I'll still refer to him as a guy, though it's unfortunate what he's lost.

If someone has their balls cut off, and then gets a sex change, I would say the same.

They have the bones, DNA, voice, and face of a male. They're still a guy. They just got rid of their sex organs, and attached someone else's sex organs to them, which has the DNA of another person, and was meant for their body originally.
I won't lie with someone about themselves.

The only part about this, that I am not sure about is if they actually got the sex change, however, then I thought about those rare situations in which a male has to have their testicles taken off or something.

Cancer is one such situation if I recall correctly.

If gender is decided by your sex organs purely, then what do we call those guys?

Well, he still has the physical brain of a man, the bones, and the DNA.

When he talks he'll sound like a man, and his head is even going to be shaped differently from a woman. Of course I'll still refer to him as a guy, though it's unfortunate what he's lost.

If someone has their balls cut off, and then gets a sex change, I would say the same.

They have the bones, DNA, voice, and face of a male. They're still a guy. They just got rid of their sex organs, and attached someone else's sex organs to them, which has the DNA of another person, and was meant for their body originally.
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02-21-15 09:52 PM
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Myelin : My apologies. Wasn't aware you considered that a slur. I don't really know the exact shades of meaning to people for some words, so if we should meet again and that happens, let me know. 
Myelin : My apologies. Wasn't aware you considered that a slur. I don't really know the exact shades of meaning to people for some words, so if we should meet again and that happens, let me know. 
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(edited by FaithFighter on 02-21-15 09:58 PM)    

02-22-15 12:46 AM
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In my opinion, I think it should only matter how u feel and not others unless u seek their approval. I mean, if I came across a woman in men's clothes or vice versa, I would say he or she based on how they look from my view. If they really didn't like it and they kinda asked me to refer to them as such and such, then I'd try to.
In my opinion, I think it should only matter how u feel and not others unless u seek their approval. I mean, if I came across a woman in men's clothes or vice versa, I would say he or she based on how they look from my view. If they really didn't like it and they kinda asked me to refer to them as such and such, then I'd try to.
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02-27-15 05:57 AM
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This is going to be considered a bit of a controversial post by people that don't know what I'm talking about.

Sword legion : Sex is what's on the outside. Gender is a mental construct.

Transgendered people are, by definition, mentally ill. In order to have the delusion to genuinely have thoughts of transgenderism, you need a mental illness called "Dysphoria".

As far as I know, we live in a society where we try our hardest to allow mentally ill people to live in society with the rest of us. All in all, transgendered people are fully functioning members of society and have every right to be that in the way they intend.

It's not like they're converting people over to give them their mental illnesses. So why treat them like outcasts because of it?

So yes, if I encountered a transgendered person, I'd refer to what they'd want to be referred by simply because there's no reason why I shouldn't. It's called being a decent human being.
This is going to be considered a bit of a controversial post by people that don't know what I'm talking about.

Sword legion : Sex is what's on the outside. Gender is a mental construct.

Transgendered people are, by definition, mentally ill. In order to have the delusion to genuinely have thoughts of transgenderism, you need a mental illness called "Dysphoria".

As far as I know, we live in a society where we try our hardest to allow mentally ill people to live in society with the rest of us. All in all, transgendered people are fully functioning members of society and have every right to be that in the way they intend.

It's not like they're converting people over to give them their mental illnesses. So why treat them like outcasts because of it?

So yes, if I encountered a transgendered person, I'd refer to what they'd want to be referred by simply because there's no reason why I shouldn't. It's called being a decent human being.
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02-27-15 11:42 AM
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thing1 : Without ill-intent it's the same as people not considering you a veteran because you never went all the way.... The similarities are there.

I personally have never really cared much for gender... I'm sexually attracted to people's personalities and find humans interesting. It's why i often call people he or she randomly because it simply is what comes to mind. If someone who was born male wants to be female that's fine by me.. If doesn't matter what sexual organ they have. They are still people at the end of the day and deserve to be treated with the same respect you would give anyone else. 

I can understand why religious people have different feelings about it.. But then again i have feelings that if god was really righteous, why does he give innocent children un curable diseases and vice versa... Also how does anybody know that if god is indeed a being of some sort.. (or however people want to imagine him/her/it) that they themselves have changed their thoughts on how they want the world to be... Of course this next sentence will cause a massive "wtf is he talking about in both the religious and non-religious as it involves both concepts" but what if as human beings evolved perhaps our god evolved their mindset as well. 

I'm expecting replies like "god has no flaws" but is really changing your own opinion on something you created a flaw?, or is it just development....

At the end of the day, I don't care what gender you are, or what you want to be, If you're a decent person I'll treat you like one. If not i won't it's that simple. Personality to me has always and will always be more important.... It's why i can be attracted to pretty much anyone...
thing1 : Without ill-intent it's the same as people not considering you a veteran because you never went all the way.... The similarities are there.

I personally have never really cared much for gender... I'm sexually attracted to people's personalities and find humans interesting. It's why i often call people he or she randomly because it simply is what comes to mind. If someone who was born male wants to be female that's fine by me.. If doesn't matter what sexual organ they have. They are still people at the end of the day and deserve to be treated with the same respect you would give anyone else. 

I can understand why religious people have different feelings about it.. But then again i have feelings that if god was really righteous, why does he give innocent children un curable diseases and vice versa... Also how does anybody know that if god is indeed a being of some sort.. (or however people want to imagine him/her/it) that they themselves have changed their thoughts on how they want the world to be... Of course this next sentence will cause a massive "wtf is he talking about in both the religious and non-religious as it involves both concepts" but what if as human beings evolved perhaps our god evolved their mindset as well. 

I'm expecting replies like "god has no flaws" but is really changing your own opinion on something you created a flaw?, or is it just development....

At the end of the day, I don't care what gender you are, or what you want to be, If you're a decent person I'll treat you like one. If not i won't it's that simple. Personality to me has always and will always be more important.... It's why i can be attracted to pretty much anyone...
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04-22-15 10:40 PM
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We're all human beings.  I'll respect anyone so long as they are respectful towards me.  Does it weird me out?  Yes.    Had a colleague that was transgender.  Did it weird me out?  Yes.     I don't understand that mindset and he made one hell of an ugly woman.  She was a good person though, very intelligent, and well respected within her work community.

No one should disrespect anyone because of the way they appear.  Only judge, if ever, by the actions they make.
We're all human beings.  I'll respect anyone so long as they are respectful towards me.  Does it weird me out?  Yes.    Had a colleague that was transgender.  Did it weird me out?  Yes.     I don't understand that mindset and he made one hell of an ugly woman.  She was a good person though, very intelligent, and well respected within her work community.

No one should disrespect anyone because of the way they appear.  Only judge, if ever, by the actions they make.
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04-23-15 12:28 PM
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Err... of course? I respect anyone that respects my person and property.

Now, as far as
accepting that person it might take a while. Despite all the readings I've made and talks I've attended I'm still confused about their person. I can understand transsexuals - they completely become the other sex - but I'm still confused with transgender, i.e. people who (stereotypically) act like the other sex but keep the "original kit" for lack of a better expression.

If we become friends I might even come to understand his/her mindset. But until then I won't hide that I will feel uncomfortable for being next to such an "unusual person." It's not discrimination it's human nature.
Err... of course? I respect anyone that respects my person and property.

Now, as far as
accepting that person it might take a while. Despite all the readings I've made and talks I've attended I'm still confused about their person. I can understand transsexuals - they completely become the other sex - but I'm still confused with transgender, i.e. people who (stereotypically) act like the other sex but keep the "original kit" for lack of a better expression.

If we become friends I might even come to understand his/her mindset. But until then I won't hide that I will feel uncomfortable for being next to such an "unusual person." It's not discrimination it's human nature.
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04-23-15 04:26 PM
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I accept any kind of people, but as some people has said, it will be a little uncomfortable at first. Any experience you haven't faced before feels strange in one way or another, and personally knowing someone "different" sure feels strange. 

I can be friends with anyone that is open to make new friends. All friendships need some time to grow and mature, and maybe the day when I stop feeling uncomfortable around that person can eventually come. 

About the discussion on how should we call them... Well, the answer is simple: what each individual wants to be called. At first, I will always refer to them as males, unless they don't want to be called that way. Each individual is different, so each one has an opinion of their own, no matter if it's shared with others or unique.
I accept any kind of people, but as some people has said, it will be a little uncomfortable at first. Any experience you haven't faced before feels strange in one way or another, and personally knowing someone "different" sure feels strange. 

I can be friends with anyone that is open to make new friends. All friendships need some time to grow and mature, and maybe the day when I stop feeling uncomfortable around that person can eventually come. 

About the discussion on how should we call them... Well, the answer is simple: what each individual wants to be called. At first, I will always refer to them as males, unless they don't want to be called that way. Each individual is different, so each one has an opinion of their own, no matter if it's shared with others or unique.
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04-23-15 05:24 PM
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What's so hard about it?! If someone wants to be identified as a male, identify them as a male! If they want to be identified as a female, identify them as a female. It really isn't that hard. They aren't hurting anyone, and all they ask for is respect. For some people on this forum to say they won't call someone there preferred pronouns because they're "uncomfortable" is an irrelevant reason, I mean, come on! You're UNCOMFORTABLE?!?!?! Cry me a river. Even religion is a better excuse than that. 
What's so hard about it?! If someone wants to be identified as a male, identify them as a male! If they want to be identified as a female, identify them as a female. It really isn't that hard. They aren't hurting anyone, and all they ask for is respect. For some people on this forum to say they won't call someone there preferred pronouns because they're "uncomfortable" is an irrelevant reason, I mean, come on! You're UNCOMFORTABLE?!?!?! Cry me a river. Even religion is a better excuse than that. 
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04-23-15 05:39 PM
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Yes. Because I have no right to judge anyone. They have the right to be who ever they want and who am I to stop them. I am not God and therefore have no right to pass judgement. Now respect is like everything needs to be earned not given. So as long as they are not doing it for the purpose for attention but because that is who they are than go for it. Be you because that is all you can be.
Yes. Because I have no right to judge anyone. They have the right to be who ever they want and who am I to stop them. I am not God and therefore have no right to pass judgement. Now respect is like everything needs to be earned not given. So as long as they are not doing it for the purpose for attention but because that is who they are than go for it. Be you because that is all you can be.
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04-23-15 07:24 PM
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Makalya : It is easy on the surface, but we've been "conditioned" to associate certain traits with male and female. Therefore it's hard to get those constructs out.

In Quebec there is this very famous transgender lawyer (male to female) who now goes by Micheline... but who still "looks" like a man (voice, shoulder width, the "original kit"). S/he has been the object of many mockeries because s/he was probably one of the first ones in the province... plus s/he has a wife!
Makalya : It is easy on the surface, but we've been "conditioned" to associate certain traits with male and female. Therefore it's hard to get those constructs out.

In Quebec there is this very famous transgender lawyer (male to female) who now goes by Micheline... but who still "looks" like a man (voice, shoulder width, the "original kit"). S/he has been the object of many mockeries because s/he was probably one of the first ones in the province... plus s/he has a wife!
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04-23-15 07:36 PM
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janus : none of that matters. call someone by there preferred pronouns. period. 
janus : none of that matters. call someone by there preferred pronouns. period. 
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(edited by Makalya on 04-23-15 07:37 PM)    

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