Feel free to answer and debate. I don't believe in God I just want to see what people are going to say and see if people think I will burn or let me be.

I will put why I don't believe in God and why I think Christianity is a good thing to believe in for some people.
I believe that God is just to simple of an answer to the questions of the universe. They make some people stop looking for answers.

I do think that Christianity dos help people by guiding them to do good thing like help your neighbor and stay true to your spouse gender aside.

I believe in God.

Because there is no way a Universe this advanced exists without some purpose. The idea that this Universe was made by a powerful being with some intent makes more sense than the Universe not existing and then just coming into existence.

Also, if you have nothing, you have nothing. Nothing literally means "No-thing".

No matter, no energy, no laws by which they are governed by.

If you don't have materials and the rules by which they can react to. Nothing is exactly what happens, and then nothing is exactly what you have.


I am aware that people say that the Bible is historically inaccurate, and even unscientific, but the solution that these people use to solve the problem of the Universe coming in existence is inconsistent with laws you have already used to define the Universe and study it. Adjusting them to make room for the Universes creation of it's self makes it unstable, and technically unreadable as of today regarding truth.

There are no "exceptions" Everything has a consistent core somewhere. This universe when broken down, all it is it Matter and Energy, which also are apparently interchangeable, so I'll just group the two in a unicordinated status called "Stuff".

And "Stuff" is what makes up the Universe. Which is exactly 100% right. And without God, save what is written in our hearts or as Paul talks about the gentiles conscious we begin to gravitate to what makes up our universe.

Stuff.

Morals, good and bad, are subjective. And While I appreciate the thoughts of good will, And there are definitely things in religion that those outside of it would deem "good","good" is only a subjective term. All we have is matter an energy, or well, stuff. So whoever has the most and best stuff wins. Morality is little different from a legal system, or even rules to a game. Playing chess by the rules is respected, but Monopoly has plenty of "house" variations. And as a result, I think that "good" is nothing but a feel "good" word, with nothing but some grounding in the fallible, inconstancy of the human conscious.

Not be rude, this is just plainly how I see it.

I personally do not believe in God mostly because of lack of proof. Now, I realize that just because I can't prove something does or doesn't exist, does not mean that it doesn't exist, but religion has been around for thousands of years, and we still can't prove whether God is real or not. We've proven dinosaurs are real, and they've been around for millions of years.


Now, there's nothing wrong with being a better person, and believing in heaven, that's fine. The "Christians" I have problems with are the ones that burn Tickle Me Elmo dolls and claim that Magic: The Gathering and Star Wars is evil. That's the kind of Christian that bothers me. Or the ones that refuse to believe in fact, because it's not in the Bible.

I'm actually checking out this site (For research on my post!). It's creationtips.com, and it's really interesting. They're answering questions related to the Bible using fact and logic. And are even saying that Dinosaurs existed, and here's why. Really cool stuff. Now, I may not believe everything it says, but I respect them for not just saying, "God did it." They have reasons and well thought out answers.


Anyways, I think I got a little off topic... Uh, I don't believe there is a God, but... Don't be a jerk. Oh, and no more religious wars... ... ...



P.S. Totally off topic, but why is spell check telling me that 'proven' is not a word? Someone needs to fix the spell check... Just saying...

P.S.S. Oh, and I hate it when Christians use 'Faith' to answer questions... They may as well say aliens, or magic... Nothing wrong with having faith, but it's not an answer...

I know there is a God because of what I see in the world and how consistent it is to the world we live in. It is also because of how the Bible describes me and all Mankind, of how far from good we really are, and how evil we really are, and from there, how amazing God works in the world and in the lives of those who belong to Him. From there, you can see how everything just points to God as the Creator, King, and Savior.



Knowing that God is the source of the Universe's creation doesn't make people stop looking for answers. It is why Church fathers and philosophers after the Apostles died continued to study and defend and establish what is true. It is why many scientists are motivated by their faith in God to continue to research and study the world that God created. Knowing who made it doesn't mean that we know everything about how it was made, and in studying and looking more into it, it brings Glory to God in the act of looking for why. 





F. Starr : Believe it or not, those who actually study about facts and logic are those who actually take their faith seriously. It is from Clement of Alexandria, a early church theologian, who said that "All truth is God's truth wherever it may be found." It was Augustine who said that "let every good and true Christian understand that wherever truth may be found, it belongs to his Master." Faith only happens when someone is confident about something that they have faith in. The Bible talks about faith as the assurance about what we do not see, and where do we get that assurance? From what is revealed to us through the world and through scripture that describes about the nature of Man and our relationship with God. To say that we can't prove God is real, you are thinking of physical evidence of God, which can't be possible for God is spirit, not physical, but just like what scripture said: "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." (Romans 1:20) The realism of God comes from the creation of the world, and we see Gods power through what He does in nature, continually mediating and working.

Everything that you believe or you suggest to be true still requires the step of faith and trust in order for you say that they are true and fact. And that goes the same with Christianity and the Bible. Faith in Christ is not blind or deceived "faith", but having the assurance that it is true, and then take the next step of actually accepting and believing to be true. And that assurance comes from the support that you see around, that it is nonsense to see that a physical temporary world would be started by nothing, or that people can actually say what is good or bad without an ultimate standard that defines good and bad, or that one can work their way to be set free of all the bad they have done.

A true Christian doesn't simply say "God did it" but a continuing response of "I want to know more about God and how to be like Him, but I know that I am saved by Him and I trust that His Word and His work on the cross doesn't fail"

play4fun : But... I like physical evidence... 

While I have your attention, though, I was kind of curious about some things. Alright, I haven't read every book in the Bible, so I am by no means an expert, no do I claim to have detailed knowledge of it. But I know people who seem like devout Christians, but openly hate gays and lesbians. Now, I understand the Bible says marriage should be between a man and a woman, but to openly hate them, protesting, slander, harassment, etc... I'm pretty sure the Bible isn't about hate. Are these people considered true Christians?

Same thing with the KKK, I'm sure they may believe that they are true Christians, but to use the Bible to justify racism, violence, murder, et cetera. Did they twist the words of the Bible, or are they still Christians?

And some of these Churches... I see Churches with massive plasma screen t.v.s. Just tons of money going into it to look nice. I'm sure they do charity work, and help out the community, and each other, but isn't it a little excessive? Couldn't you have a Church just as successful and devout, without having spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on it? Wouldn't some of that money be better spent on other things?

I've also kind of wondered about this. This is just an example, I'm making it up. But let's say this woman goes into a coma. And her family prays every night for her to wake up and recover. Sure enough she wakes up, and is fine. Some people would consider that a miracle from God. Now, same situation, only she doesn't wake up. She dies. People would say, "Well, God must have told her it's her time.". This is one reason why I have problems believing. It's that regardless of the outcome, positive or negative, it's always God's Will. If He has the power, why not save His true Christians? Stuff like that.

I think that's why it's hard to make a Believer a non-Believer (Not that I'd want to), because they genuinely believe, whatever happens, God did it. I know people who are very dedicated the Bible and the Church, yet openly hate and discriminate. They pay their tithes, and are good people. Now, would you consider them true Christians?

Sorry if that was kind of long. I don't normally rant about this kind of stuff. I was interested in seeing what an intelligent Christian like yourself would say though. I have met many of  those people who respond with "God did it.". 

Oh,  and I am honestly not trying to offend anyone, if you believe, that is absolutely fine with me, I'm just a huge skeptic. 

F. Starr : Nothing wrong about some physical evidence, which is why scripture points to Creation to show there is a Creator, but people also have to keep in mind that physical evidence doesn't explain everything. 

What do you mean by "people who seem like devout Christians" but "openly hate gays and lesbians"? How could people say they are devout Christians if they devote their lives slandering and discriminating? There is such a thing as twisting scripture and incorrect theology, and it's actions like this that shows the harmfulness of applied wrong theology. scripture clearly talk about loving one another, including enemies. Part of loving others is also to tell them what is right and wrong and to hang on to truth, to hate on the sins and to strive for what is good, that includes explaining how homosexuality is unholy in God's eyes, but not to speak lies of others or to harass them.

It's wrong for me to generalize and say that people who do that are not Christians, for 1) Christians still struggle in sin and they may be in the process of growing in holiness and getting out of that, or 2) it might be their first time dealing with that topic and not know how to respond correctly the first time. But if someone devotes their time to hate someone and unjustly attribute it to scripture, that's one "fruit" that they are not saved at all. Even the Bible warns about how if there is a person or an angel who preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed. KKK and Westboro Baptist Church are clear examples of how devotion to poor theology reveals them being non-Christian. There are more issues to those groups other than the obvious ones so it's clear that these are just hate groups with a unjustified "Christ" banner on top.

For churches with massive plasma screens, it really depends on what church you are referring to. Some might have those just because they are a large church and need to pay more for certain needs of a large congregation. The ones that you would need to beware about are those that are part of the "Prosperity Gospel" movement, which are preachers who say that if you believe in God, you will be prosperous, and rely on people tithing a lot with the thought that the more they tithe, the more they will be blessed. This is a false gospel. Not biblical at all. I blame this more on the American church history because you don't see this in other countries where Christianity is strong yet are being persecuted.

Finally, about your hypothetical situation. It's not wrong to say that everything is in accordance to God's Will, because...everything is in accordance to God's Will. God knows the begin, middle, and end of history. God is in control whether you believe in Him or not. It is said in scripture that He is the "Alpha and Omega", Beginning and End, and what happens in history, He wills and allows to happen. The thing is that people romanticize the idea of a miracle, thinking it had to be something that is of divine intervention, when a miracle is anything that is not expected, yet still happens, even if you are able to explain it. The birth of a child is a miracle of life; being able to live through another day when God should just take our lives for our sins is a miracle; certain incidents that happens at the right moment in our point of view is a miracle, the fact that God doesn't have to save us from our sins for we are really nothing in God's eyes, yet does so anyways by sacrificing Himself is a blessing.

The one thing I do say is wrong is when something happens and someone tries to explain why God decided to do what He did, because no one truly knows what God is planning when something happens, and may not know till later. For example, someone tries to explain why a tragedy happened, and they may actually be giving a false information by trying to explain what God was thinking when it happened, but we do know that God still wills it and allows it to happen for Good and that is where we have trust in God on His purposes for His Glory.

Christians understand that those who are saved by Him have eternal life. So the view of the world is not home, but just passing through, doing God's work and leaving a good legacy. God doesn't need to go "saving" Christians by prevent them from dying because they are already saved, from sin and eternal death, and they already obtained eternal life, and when the temporary bodies (caused by the corruption of sin) finally give out just like everyone else, they will be with God. In the end, no matter what happens, God still wins.

Someone who is a Christian stays a Christian because of the Holy Spirit's work in that person's life. The person who is converted is someone who changed from the inside out, who no longer hates the things that God loves, and no longer love the things that God hates. The person will, as scripture says, "become a new creation, the old is gone, the new has come" and you will see a huge change in the person's life because God saved that person from sin and from Himself. 

Just like a hymn that I know:
"No power from Hell,
No scheme of Man,
Can ever pluck me from His Hand
Till He returns, or Calls me Home
Here in the Power of Christ I'll stand."

Ne0matt :

I believe in God because he is that little thing in the back of my brain that never seem to go away. No matter what I do.

I believe in Christ because he is in my eyes sort of the same thing as hope.

Holy
ghost is something I never will have but I will still think is what 
people should thrive for. The perfection we each should only be happy to
have inside us.

I also believe in the teachings of Martin Luther
and Lars Lestadius. Well, just because. They are just people and since
they are not divine beings, they have the right to be wrong but yet I
belive they had lots of things right. If I would tell you why, I guess
it would be more about theolgical politics than religion and it would
evade the fine question that was asked here.

Something like that, I suppouse to be the most truthful but still I feel there is something there I just cannot explain.

Sure, I could tell you some amazing tales of things that I have seen with my own eyes that prove God is real, such as visible manifestations of His spirit, or broken bones going back together instantly before my very eyes. But why should you believe I'm telling the truth?

I suppose the hang up for many people is believing in something without proof of it. And yet we all believe things without proof everyday.

You get in the car and turn the key. Why? You believe it will start, even though you haven't hooked it up to a diagnostic machine. You have no proof it'll start, but you believe it will.

You flip the light switch. Why? You have not checked the wiring (every time) but you believe it will cause the light to come on. Without proof.

Same with turning your faucet on, turning your air conditioner or heater on, or even launching your browser. These are all things that --given nothing has broken-- will work, but we have no way of knowing if they're still working vefore we try and it fails. So at the end of the day, you believe in all sorts of things without proof that they'll work. You trust in those little parts that you cannot see without tearing the object apart, and who tears their pc apart before turning it on?


And on the theological side of things: if you believe in God, you do so because you just do.
If you do not believe in God, then you believe there isn't one.


To sum it all up :
We can debate logic and reasoning all day, and the things I've read here about why people believe have made sense, but in the end whether you believe in God or not, you're blindly buying into an opinion.

Have you seen God? No. Can you prove 100% that He created the world? No. Can you prove 100% that He did NOT create the world? No.

Suffice it to say that those who believe in God must blindly accept some things that we have no answer for, and those who do not believe in God must do the same. If any of us --believers or not-- are asked a question about every single thing down the line of our opinion as to whether God exists or not, we will all eventually be unable to offer anything more than an "I don't know, I just believe it's that way".

So we all have faith in something that we cannot fully explain. We must simply decide which we believe. My question is, who is better off finding out that they were wrong? I won't try to convince you if you don't want to hear it (though I welcome a PM discussion from anyone who wants to talk about it honestly), but I do suggest giving it a shot. What is there to lose?

And I mean no disrespect to anyone with this post. I respect everyone as a person and someone with a right to an opinion. I can disagree without hating or disrespecting anyone, and such is the case here. Have a great day.

Eirinn :

Oh come on. Testify, brother. If not in this thread, on some other maybe?

Brigand : Eh, alright. I'll have to do just that sometime. Be expecting the summon.

Ne0matt :  My question to you is, why do you, as many people who claim that they don't believe in God, want to know if God exists?  Why do you say "God is just too simple of an answer to the questions of the universe..."  What should it be then?  I honestly want to know.  I'm not trying to put you on the spot or trying to put a trip on you.  I'm truly, sincerely asking these questions.  Why do people who "don't believe in God" take so much time and effort in debating / reasoning and asking these type of questions about God when it's supposed to not even matter to them?
 

As, Eirinn said, I too have seen things, unexplainable and it just feels weird (in a good way). One night I was sleeping I don't remember what I was dreaming about but, I know this wasn't a dream I woke up and I realized I was awake, but when I woke up I seen someone didn't recognize at first but as my eyes adjusted I seen that I was looking at my grandmother who died 8 years ago, she had a glow around her. It was beautiful but a quote from her that I still remember she said "Everything will be ok, always look up, pray and know I'm there with god, I love you" and then while crying quicker than a blink she was gone I can't express how good it felt to have assurance and seeing my grandmother again, honestly tearing up a tad while writing lol but it's not sad tears just happiness. But the reason she said that was because I was going through bad times with my family. Honestly I can't give anymore proof than this. I would say more but it's like 3:16 in the morning, so I better sleep.

SonicFan22:  Interesting. 3:16 in the morning you say? John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."  Immediately thought about it when I saw 3:16

Ne0matt : Sure u don't believe god but cristion people do ( not saying I'm one ) and for the answer of course I believe god If u don'tfineIf u do fineIts a opinion to not bbelieve god

SonicFan22 :  Summon fail :/