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So...Israel's under attack....

 

07-13-14 03:29 PM
Eirinn is Offline
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imamonster : Well it may seem unfair, but as I said, the Qur'an says that Allah takes kingdoms from whom He will and gives them to the people He wants to have them. I'm familiar with that concept, as even my scriptures teach that God does that. Simply what it means is that when Israel took that territory back, it was Allah giving them that land. Can one ever be wrong in taking something if the God of all flesh is giving it to them? Call Him God, call Him Allah (it means the exact same thing, and the word was even used at times in the original language that the Christian scriptures came from) His ways are perfect and beyond our comprehension. If we believe in Him, then we believe what He does is right, and that He gave Israel that land when they fought in the war and reclaimed it. I can understand your human side feeling it unjust, but I'm simply appealing to your understanding of what you feel to be truth. Much like if Israel loses that land again, I'll have to conclude that God wanted such to happen.


As for the other that you mentioned, it doesn't really affect the topic at hand, nor do I understand the surrounding circumstances (not sure I understand what you're getting at either), but I will say that some Jewish people told him that. Some does not equal all. I've been lied to by white American "Christian" men, but it doesn't have any reflection of the general White American Christian man, I mean I'm a white American Christian man, and I know I'm not a liar. Simply put, you can't judge anyone based on previous encounters with people that they had something in common with. That's racist/prejudiced. And no, I don't think you're either of those (though you've never told me one way or another).
imamonster : Well it may seem unfair, but as I said, the Qur'an says that Allah takes kingdoms from whom He will and gives them to the people He wants to have them. I'm familiar with that concept, as even my scriptures teach that God does that. Simply what it means is that when Israel took that territory back, it was Allah giving them that land. Can one ever be wrong in taking something if the God of all flesh is giving it to them? Call Him God, call Him Allah (it means the exact same thing, and the word was even used at times in the original language that the Christian scriptures came from) His ways are perfect and beyond our comprehension. If we believe in Him, then we believe what He does is right, and that He gave Israel that land when they fought in the war and reclaimed it. I can understand your human side feeling it unjust, but I'm simply appealing to your understanding of what you feel to be truth. Much like if Israel loses that land again, I'll have to conclude that God wanted such to happen.


As for the other that you mentioned, it doesn't really affect the topic at hand, nor do I understand the surrounding circumstances (not sure I understand what you're getting at either), but I will say that some Jewish people told him that. Some does not equal all. I've been lied to by white American "Christian" men, but it doesn't have any reflection of the general White American Christian man, I mean I'm a white American Christian man, and I know I'm not a liar. Simply put, you can't judge anyone based on previous encounters with people that they had something in common with. That's racist/prejudiced. And no, I don't think you're either of those (though you've never told me one way or another).
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07-13-14 07:30 PM
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UFC :

The jews were given Israel before ww2.
if you are referring to the original Israeli state pre roman, then theres a whole lot of countrys needing refounded. If you are refering to allowing jews to migrate there, that is not even nearly the same thing.
More than 6 million soldiers were killed. More thn 6 million civillins. Stalin had more than 6 million dead on his hands. Where was their new nation?When shall we see tartarstan?
Clearly, palestinians had no need for land. Who needs land?over rated. Its not like they need food, water, shelter.
You know what, how about you get out of australia and give the land back to the aborigines. God knows they arent treated as citizens there, they need a state more than any white man. How many of them have been killed, brutalised, raped, sent off to camps and had their children stolen, to be raised as australians.

But hey, thats diferent. Because that would be you losing out,not someone else.
Good work champ.
UFC :

The jews were given Israel before ww2.
if you are referring to the original Israeli state pre roman, then theres a whole lot of countrys needing refounded. If you are refering to allowing jews to migrate there, that is not even nearly the same thing.
More than 6 million soldiers were killed. More thn 6 million civillins. Stalin had more than 6 million dead on his hands. Where was their new nation?When shall we see tartarstan?
Clearly, palestinians had no need for land. Who needs land?over rated. Its not like they need food, water, shelter.
You know what, how about you get out of australia and give the land back to the aborigines. God knows they arent treated as citizens there, they need a state more than any white man. How many of them have been killed, brutalised, raped, sent off to camps and had their children stolen, to be raised as australians.

But hey, thats diferent. Because that would be you losing out,not someone else.
Good work champ.
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07-13-14 07:49 PM
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thenumberone : holy sh*** you are beyond petty and dumb at the same time congrats champ. Why don't you settle down and think stuff through before you say it. Oh yeah I forgot just be having land that you automatically get food and water and shelter like africans do with all their land right? And what do you know about australia? You don't live here and you probably watched a 5 minute youtube video telling you about it and like the hipster fool you are now think you are an expert. Go watch rabbit proof fence again and use that as your knowledge for everything in this country dummy. Are you so are silly that you don't realise that in 1948 the state of Israel was recognized by the UN and that's when the palestinians got real pissy.

I don't know who the heck taught you about modern history but they did a miserable job. And furthermore equating stalin having 6 million dead on his own merits is not nearly the same is 6 million jews being slaughtered in nazi germany among other countries and put in slave camps with no country to call home. Russia had their home and they were known for killing their own especially if you cowered about going to war. If you stop being an emotional ass to me and get your information correct instead of saying i'm right and your wrong and I won't change my opinion people will talk to you. Otherwise i'll just ignore you.
thenumberone : holy sh*** you are beyond petty and dumb at the same time congrats champ. Why don't you settle down and think stuff through before you say it. Oh yeah I forgot just be having land that you automatically get food and water and shelter like africans do with all their land right? And what do you know about australia? You don't live here and you probably watched a 5 minute youtube video telling you about it and like the hipster fool you are now think you are an expert. Go watch rabbit proof fence again and use that as your knowledge for everything in this country dummy. Are you so are silly that you don't realise that in 1948 the state of Israel was recognized by the UN and that's when the palestinians got real pissy.

I don't know who the heck taught you about modern history but they did a miserable job. And furthermore equating stalin having 6 million dead on his own merits is not nearly the same is 6 million jews being slaughtered in nazi germany among other countries and put in slave camps with no country to call home. Russia had their home and they were known for killing their own especially if you cowered about going to war. If you stop being an emotional ass to me and get your information correct instead of saying i'm right and your wrong and I won't change my opinion people will talk to you. Otherwise i'll just ignore you.
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07-14-14 07:49 AM
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thenumberone :

Israel's already founded. Would I support founding Israel back in the day? No. Do I support removing it now? No. Palestine isn't going to get their land back from them. There is nothing that can be done except kill people. Israel has been established, and Palestine would be noble to permanently cease fire for the sake of stability. The injustice has already taken place, and this should not be solved with more injustice.
thenumberone :

Israel's already founded. Would I support founding Israel back in the day? No. Do I support removing it now? No. Palestine isn't going to get their land back from them. There is nothing that can be done except kill people. Israel has been established, and Palestine would be noble to permanently cease fire for the sake of stability. The injustice has already taken place, and this should not be solved with more injustice.
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07-14-14 11:10 AM
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UFC :

"holy sh*** you are beyond petty and dumb".
The irony is thick, given that you never seem to have a clue what you are talking about, when you chime in on these topics. You simply open your mouth, and let your belly rumble.
Its pointless, because its doubtful you have the capacity or the desire to actually process why what you say is wrong, but here's a break down for you.

"Oh yeah I forgot just be having land that you automatically get food and water and shelter like africans do with all their land right?"

"http://www.voanews.com/content/africa-to-record-largest-population-growth-over-next-40-years/1748380.html"
Population steadily growing (because damn, it's not like food is needed for population growth).

http://www.eoearth.org/view/article/149914/
Agriculture in Africa. While starvation and malnourishment does occur in many nations/;regions, Africa does in fact produce a large amount of goods, and most rural poor have livestock, giving them security should disaster strike. There is also significant room for infrastructural improvement to increase yields. And wat you conveniently forget, is without land to farm, the food situation would be far worse. Many regions in Africa export there food abroad, despite your insinuation that there is no food in Africa (both racist and wrong).
BAhaha, what do I know about Australia?Apparently more than you. I have seen numerous documentary's, read numerous books, both in its founding, creation of the state up to ww2, and the modern state itself. And its treatment, past and present, of aborigines is appalling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations
the stolen children is a well known fact. A lesser known one is it still happens.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/21/john-pilger-indigenous-australian-families
http://www.treatyrepublic.net/content/new-stolen-generation
In 2009 alone, more than 4,3000 aboriginal children were taken from their parents.

"Nationwide, Aboriginal children comprise just 4.4 per cent of all children, and yet make up 24 per cent of all children in care."

There are plenty of cases of children being taken without valid or proven reasons, nor do the parents get given warning, despite the fact protocol dictates they should.
But lets assume that its true to say the children are living in poverty.

http://www.acoss.org.au/policy/indigenous/
There is a clear discrepancy in employment, wealth, and health between white Australians and natives.

And here's a fun fact. Australia is rich in natural resources. The problem?Most of its out in the desserts, on native lands. What to do?Same as the Americans did, chuck them off it, it belongs to the white man now.
In theory, they are now supposed to negotiate with the miners first. But the federal government is quick to ensure the deal goes through, wouldn't want the money to slow down after all. Even when deals are made, the share for the natives is miniscule compared to the share for the company's.
perhaps before you talk of Israels right to all the land (regardless of who lives there) you should focus on your own ethnic issues.

Apparently you are too stupid to realise I mentioned the U.N in my first post.
But talking of not knowing history, Israel declared independence in 1948. They were recognised/admitted to the UN in 1949. Not 48. OOoo, awkward.


I don't know who the heck taught you about modern history but they did a miserable job. And furthermore equating stalin having 6 million dead on his own merits is not nearly the same is 6 million jews being slaughtered in nazi germany among other countries and put in slave camps with no country to call home. Russia had their home and they were known for killing their own especially if you cowered about going to war. If you stop being an emotional ass to me and get your information correct instead of saying i'm right and your wrong and I won't change my opinion people will talk to you. Otherwise i'll just ignore you.

Hitler killed 6 million, Stalin 10's of millions. I'm sure the fact that they were still technically Russian was of great comfort to them as they toiled under the gulag in Siberia, under back breaking labour, and as their family were rounded up and killed for treason.
"Look on the bright side Nikolay, we may be about to be brutally murdered, but at least we are still Russian. We don't get to leave, or eat or anything but hey, that's completely different from Germany, somehow.
How does it matter what 'country' they died in?All those nations were part of Germany then, as all the regions Russians died in were soviet lands. Now poland etc is independent from Germany, now Ukraine, Lithuania etc are independent of Russia. And many of these regions were simply nations Russia conquered, same as Germany. Many didn't consider themselves Russian. You are clutching at straws.
By all means, don't talk to me. Because I can say with confidence, there is not one person iv ever had a debate with on vizzed, who knew less than you. Seriously. There are many that have been wrong on points, but they at least had some semblance of logic.
Have fun in your dream world. Talk to me once you've managed to do some research, not before.

Txgangsta :
As I said in my original post, of course removing the Jews from Israel would now be a crime. its the only home they have ever known, having been born there.
Palestine still has clearly populated areas. Israel needs to stop settling its people in them. The lands the Jews are in are Israels. the land the Palestinians is in is there's. If either want to live without fearing bombs and bullets, they will sit down and agree to it.
UFC :

"holy sh*** you are beyond petty and dumb".
The irony is thick, given that you never seem to have a clue what you are talking about, when you chime in on these topics. You simply open your mouth, and let your belly rumble.
Its pointless, because its doubtful you have the capacity or the desire to actually process why what you say is wrong, but here's a break down for you.

"Oh yeah I forgot just be having land that you automatically get food and water and shelter like africans do with all their land right?"

"http://www.voanews.com/content/africa-to-record-largest-population-growth-over-next-40-years/1748380.html"
Population steadily growing (because damn, it's not like food is needed for population growth).

http://www.eoearth.org/view/article/149914/
Agriculture in Africa. While starvation and malnourishment does occur in many nations/;regions, Africa does in fact produce a large amount of goods, and most rural poor have livestock, giving them security should disaster strike. There is also significant room for infrastructural improvement to increase yields. And wat you conveniently forget, is without land to farm, the food situation would be far worse. Many regions in Africa export there food abroad, despite your insinuation that there is no food in Africa (both racist and wrong).
BAhaha, what do I know about Australia?Apparently more than you. I have seen numerous documentary's, read numerous books, both in its founding, creation of the state up to ww2, and the modern state itself. And its treatment, past and present, of aborigines is appalling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations
the stolen children is a well known fact. A lesser known one is it still happens.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/21/john-pilger-indigenous-australian-families
http://www.treatyrepublic.net/content/new-stolen-generation
In 2009 alone, more than 4,3000 aboriginal children were taken from their parents.

"Nationwide, Aboriginal children comprise just 4.4 per cent of all children, and yet make up 24 per cent of all children in care."

There are plenty of cases of children being taken without valid or proven reasons, nor do the parents get given warning, despite the fact protocol dictates they should.
But lets assume that its true to say the children are living in poverty.

http://www.acoss.org.au/policy/indigenous/
There is a clear discrepancy in employment, wealth, and health between white Australians and natives.

And here's a fun fact. Australia is rich in natural resources. The problem?Most of its out in the desserts, on native lands. What to do?Same as the Americans did, chuck them off it, it belongs to the white man now.
In theory, they are now supposed to negotiate with the miners first. But the federal government is quick to ensure the deal goes through, wouldn't want the money to slow down after all. Even when deals are made, the share for the natives is miniscule compared to the share for the company's.
perhaps before you talk of Israels right to all the land (regardless of who lives there) you should focus on your own ethnic issues.

Apparently you are too stupid to realise I mentioned the U.N in my first post.
But talking of not knowing history, Israel declared independence in 1948. They were recognised/admitted to the UN in 1949. Not 48. OOoo, awkward.


I don't know who the heck taught you about modern history but they did a miserable job. And furthermore equating stalin having 6 million dead on his own merits is not nearly the same is 6 million jews being slaughtered in nazi germany among other countries and put in slave camps with no country to call home. Russia had their home and they were known for killing their own especially if you cowered about going to war. If you stop being an emotional ass to me and get your information correct instead of saying i'm right and your wrong and I won't change my opinion people will talk to you. Otherwise i'll just ignore you.

Hitler killed 6 million, Stalin 10's of millions. I'm sure the fact that they were still technically Russian was of great comfort to them as they toiled under the gulag in Siberia, under back breaking labour, and as their family were rounded up and killed for treason.
"Look on the bright side Nikolay, we may be about to be brutally murdered, but at least we are still Russian. We don't get to leave, or eat or anything but hey, that's completely different from Germany, somehow.
How does it matter what 'country' they died in?All those nations were part of Germany then, as all the regions Russians died in were soviet lands. Now poland etc is independent from Germany, now Ukraine, Lithuania etc are independent of Russia. And many of these regions were simply nations Russia conquered, same as Germany. Many didn't consider themselves Russian. You are clutching at straws.
By all means, don't talk to me. Because I can say with confidence, there is not one person iv ever had a debate with on vizzed, who knew less than you. Seriously. There are many that have been wrong on points, but they at least had some semblance of logic.
Have fun in your dream world. Talk to me once you've managed to do some research, not before.

Txgangsta :
As I said in my original post, of course removing the Jews from Israel would now be a crime. its the only home they have ever known, having been born there.
Palestine still has clearly populated areas. Israel needs to stop settling its people in them. The lands the Jews are in are Israels. the land the Palestinians is in is there's. If either want to live without fearing bombs and bullets, they will sit down and agree to it.
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07-14-14 01:40 PM
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The State Of Israel is an interesting country: Half of the world loves them, and half of the world hates them. They're continuously surrounded by countries which want them dead, which has given them the attitude of a dog backed into a corner in that it will lash out at anyone to survive.

I personally don't care who's going to war with who over there. You can call me awful, but at least I'm consistent. If Egypt has a big war with Syria no one bats an eye. We only care about ISIS's takeover of Iraq because we're annoyed that we spent so much money building that country up. Israel goes to war and suddenly the West is in an uproar. An uproar about what? We don't know, but we're in an uproar about something, damn it!

All I know is that I recently listened to an interview with a woman who lives in the areas that Israel are bombing. Israel may send warnings to the areas that they're attacking, but only Jews get to evacuate. They get their own special areas where they can take shelter. Everyone else is on their own. Civilian casualties are civilian casualties, warning or no warning, regardless of their ethnic or religious background.

That being said, I do agree with the general chatter that you can't bomb a country and expect them not to reciprocate, and when that happens you're going to have civilian casualties. War is Hell. Anyone who wants to get involved in it without doing damage to themselves needs to find a more productive means of diplomacy.
The State Of Israel is an interesting country: Half of the world loves them, and half of the world hates them. They're continuously surrounded by countries which want them dead, which has given them the attitude of a dog backed into a corner in that it will lash out at anyone to survive.

I personally don't care who's going to war with who over there. You can call me awful, but at least I'm consistent. If Egypt has a big war with Syria no one bats an eye. We only care about ISIS's takeover of Iraq because we're annoyed that we spent so much money building that country up. Israel goes to war and suddenly the West is in an uproar. An uproar about what? We don't know, but we're in an uproar about something, damn it!

All I know is that I recently listened to an interview with a woman who lives in the areas that Israel are bombing. Israel may send warnings to the areas that they're attacking, but only Jews get to evacuate. They get their own special areas where they can take shelter. Everyone else is on their own. Civilian casualties are civilian casualties, warning or no warning, regardless of their ethnic or religious background.

That being said, I do agree with the general chatter that you can't bomb a country and expect them not to reciprocate, and when that happens you're going to have civilian casualties. War is Hell. Anyone who wants to get involved in it without doing damage to themselves needs to find a more productive means of diplomacy.
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(edited by Crawldragon on 07-14-14 01:48 PM)     Post Rating: 1   Liked By: juuldude,

07-14-14 01:49 PM
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Eirinn : So i started to think, and I have come to this conclusion

Allah gave land to israel, but that does not mean that you can force all of the people that are living on there to be gone. They have to live together. Therefore I am against the isreaeli government. Not agains the people living there. 
Eirinn : So i started to think, and I have come to this conclusion

Allah gave land to israel, but that does not mean that you can force all of the people that are living on there to be gone. They have to live together. Therefore I am against the isreaeli government. Not agains the people living there. 
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07-14-14 05:43 PM
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I"m very pro Israel, and I think its a shame that Hamas is using human shields and children as soldiers. Israel has sent code, radio messages, phone calls to warn civilians to get out. If peace is going to be achieved. Than Hamas needs to stop firing Rockets on Israel. When Israel is fired upon they will attack. Just like any country will do. 

Now for some History: 
Thousands of years ago the Land that was Israel was settled by the ancestors of the Jews. The Jews some of them migrated to Egypt but they came back after the famine. Based on history the Palestinians did not show up to a few centuries later. Their roots go back to what is now the country of Jordan. The Phillistines (Palestine) tried to take Israel several times especially during the reigns of King Saul and especially David but they were defeated. After King Solomon Died the Kingdom of Israel split. Judah (which is were modern Israel is) lasted a few more years before being removed by Babylon. The Persians liberated and Israel returned back to their country. The Greeks tried to take Israel but were defeated. Finally the Romans took Israel and made life hard for them. In 70 AD Rome slaughtered 600,000 Jews and thus the Jews left. the Palestine resettled but they too still answered to Rome. After Rome fell several empires conquered the land. Finally we get to the Ottoman Empire which was very very bad. After WWI The British were still a world power they started to carve out countries. In the 1930's Jews had to leave Germany as Hitler was ordering them to be executed. Many Jews migrated to what would become Israel. However, all immigration was stopped and in the 1940's more were executed at the hands of Hitler. After WWII Israel was given their land back. The original plan called for a two state solution. The West Bank was supposed to be Palestine. With Israel having their part. However, Palestine did not want Israel near them so they fought a series of war. In 1967 the Six day war Palestine along with Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Lebannon ganged up on Israel. The massive army was quickly defeated. Israel wants Palestine to stop attacking Israel and recognize that Israel has the right to exists. 

Now if you go on the Bible, which I am a Christian.
 A lot of the history above is the same.The Bible says that when Israel became a country again she will never be driven out. Israel became a country again in 1948. The Bible tells us that several nations will rise to make war against her but they will be defeated. The Bible tells us a New Order will form they will try to make a peace treaty with Israel but their true motives will be to wipe out the Jews and Christians. As their leader of the New Order will be the beast or the Anti Christ.  
 
I"m very pro Israel, and I think its a shame that Hamas is using human shields and children as soldiers. Israel has sent code, radio messages, phone calls to warn civilians to get out. If peace is going to be achieved. Than Hamas needs to stop firing Rockets on Israel. When Israel is fired upon they will attack. Just like any country will do. 

Now for some History: 
Thousands of years ago the Land that was Israel was settled by the ancestors of the Jews. The Jews some of them migrated to Egypt but they came back after the famine. Based on history the Palestinians did not show up to a few centuries later. Their roots go back to what is now the country of Jordan. The Phillistines (Palestine) tried to take Israel several times especially during the reigns of King Saul and especially David but they were defeated. After King Solomon Died the Kingdom of Israel split. Judah (which is were modern Israel is) lasted a few more years before being removed by Babylon. The Persians liberated and Israel returned back to their country. The Greeks tried to take Israel but were defeated. Finally the Romans took Israel and made life hard for them. In 70 AD Rome slaughtered 600,000 Jews and thus the Jews left. the Palestine resettled but they too still answered to Rome. After Rome fell several empires conquered the land. Finally we get to the Ottoman Empire which was very very bad. After WWI The British were still a world power they started to carve out countries. In the 1930's Jews had to leave Germany as Hitler was ordering them to be executed. Many Jews migrated to what would become Israel. However, all immigration was stopped and in the 1940's more were executed at the hands of Hitler. After WWII Israel was given their land back. The original plan called for a two state solution. The West Bank was supposed to be Palestine. With Israel having their part. However, Palestine did not want Israel near them so they fought a series of war. In 1967 the Six day war Palestine along with Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Lebannon ganged up on Israel. The massive army was quickly defeated. Israel wants Palestine to stop attacking Israel and recognize that Israel has the right to exists. 

Now if you go on the Bible, which I am a Christian.
 A lot of the history above is the same.The Bible says that when Israel became a country again she will never be driven out. Israel became a country again in 1948. The Bible tells us that several nations will rise to make war against her but they will be defeated. The Bible tells us a New Order will form they will try to make a peace treaty with Israel but their true motives will be to wipe out the Jews and Christians. As their leader of the New Order will be the beast or the Anti Christ.  
 
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tornadocam :

"Now for some History"

The Canaanites held the land before Israel. The Israelites fought them for it. Should we say that is Canaanite land? No. "Going back in history" makes American Indian tribes and Europe all sorts of clans. Lets not ruin what we have.

"Now if you go on the Bible, which I am a Christian.
A lot of the history above is the same.The Bible says that when Israel became a country again she will never be driven out. Israel became a country again in 1948. The Bible tells us that several nations will rise to make war against her but they will be defeated. The Bible tells us a New Order will form they will try to make a peace treaty with Israel but their true motives will be to wipe out the Jews and Christians. As their leader of the New Order will be the beast or the Anti Christ."

You interpret Revelation way to historically. Also, the bible never once says "anti-christ". It only uses the word "anti-christs".
tornadocam :

"Now for some History"

The Canaanites held the land before Israel. The Israelites fought them for it. Should we say that is Canaanite land? No. "Going back in history" makes American Indian tribes and Europe all sorts of clans. Lets not ruin what we have.

"Now if you go on the Bible, which I am a Christian.
A lot of the history above is the same.The Bible says that when Israel became a country again she will never be driven out. Israel became a country again in 1948. The Bible tells us that several nations will rise to make war against her but they will be defeated. The Bible tells us a New Order will form they will try to make a peace treaty with Israel but their true motives will be to wipe out the Jews and Christians. As their leader of the New Order will be the beast or the Anti Christ."

You interpret Revelation way to historically. Also, the bible never once says "anti-christ". It only uses the word "anti-christs".
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