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Ken Ham debates Bill Nye
Christian / Creationist, Ken Ham, debates pro-Evolutionist, Bill Nye the Science guy
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SoL@R
02-12-14 06:06 AM
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03-26-14 12:53 AM
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Ken Ham debates Bill Nye

 

03-18-14 08:58 AM
rcarter2 is Offline
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Txgangsta : A lot of Christianity is adamant that Evolution is bad because they aren't focusing on the message of the Bible. Instead of focusing on what the Bible says is the path to Salvation (which is acceptance of Jesus Christ in your heart and following his life teachings), they are focusing on origin details that don't even teach how to earn Salvation. But more so, it is the mainstream thing to be adamant about. It is just currently the thing to be against. I seriously think that most people who are so vocal against it wouldn't even have this strong of feelings on it if the hatred on the topic wasn't planted.
Txgangsta : A lot of Christianity is adamant that Evolution is bad because they aren't focusing on the message of the Bible. Instead of focusing on what the Bible says is the path to Salvation (which is acceptance of Jesus Christ in your heart and following his life teachings), they are focusing on origin details that don't even teach how to earn Salvation. But more so, it is the mainstream thing to be adamant about. It is just currently the thing to be against. I seriously think that most people who are so vocal against it wouldn't even have this strong of feelings on it if the hatred on the topic wasn't planted.
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03-18-14 02:19 PM
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rcarter2 :

Ya, good point. It doesn't help that reason is perceived as an enemy the large majority of the time rather than a blessing that God has given us. Now not only do they have a pre-conceived hatred for evolution, but if creation is shown as irrational, they find that belief in the irrational is a credit to their faith. Some times I like the Protestant Reformation and sometimes I don't...
rcarter2 :

Ya, good point. It doesn't help that reason is perceived as an enemy the large majority of the time rather than a blessing that God has given us. Now not only do they have a pre-conceived hatred for evolution, but if creation is shown as irrational, they find that belief in the irrational is a credit to their faith. Some times I like the Protestant Reformation and sometimes I don't...
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03-26-14 12:53 AM
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Well, this will be interesting. Let me start out by introducing myself and giving a little bit of background so you know who I am. I am Shadow53 (sorry, no really names for now). I am 16, in my sophomore year of high school, and a "Christian".

I put quotes around "Christian" because there are many people out there who call themselves Christians, but don't even try to follow what the Bible says. A better, more specialized term for me would be a disciple. Now, I don't mean to come across as perfect, equal with Peter and John and the rest of the 13 (including Paul here) - I certainly am not. But I try, and that makes the difference.

I am not a Bible scholar, and do not have a doctorate in any field. Yet . But I have a mind for science, and a want to learn more about the Bible. I also steer clear of sources involving "answers" in the URL and try to stick to legitimate sources as much as I can, so rcarter2 (Sorry, not sure how to format names) should find my responses a little more satisfactory when it comes to sources.

I want to clear some things up as well. First of all, there are translation issues when it comes to going from Hebrew/Greek to English. Some translators/translations take more liberty in their translating than others in the process, which is why some versions say "whale" and some "fish" in the story of Jonah. I believe the original word was "fish", and people took that to mean "whale" when, personally, I think it was literally a large fish. A translation I like using - and would prefer if others used in this discussion as well, for reasons I will give soon - is the NET, found at net.bible.org, or the full revamped study version at lumina.bible.org.

I like this translation primarily because it was made by experts. The team was composed of 24 bible scholars, people who spent decades studying specific books and their historical background, the original language, as much required to get the original meaning of the book as they could. These scholars then translated the books that they were experts in, and made notes as they went - an average of 2 per verse - to explain why they translated the way that they did, as well sometimes the meaning of a word or phrase in the original language and how it could be interpreted in a different way, and how the one included in the translation is the most likely one. I could go on and on in explaining how they translated, but as they take up pages doing so in the free ebook download (without notes, sadly, but the online version has all 60,000+).

TL;DR: The translators of the NET knew what they were doing and did it well, and is IMO the best English translation that I have found.

Second of all, I will admit that I do not know everything, and may end up parroting someone else's argument. I will, however, look up evidence to support my standpoint, even if I quote someone who puts it better than I can.

A note to fightorace: I don't know how to make you see this as a reply to you (I would be greatful if someone could show me how to respond to multiple people at once, as I am new in the forums) but while us Christians/disciples do rely on faith for the things we do not understand, simply stating that we can disregard science as a whole is rather absurd, both to nonbelievers reading this and to me. Science - what Ken Ham called "Observational" or "Experimental" science - is how we discover how God created the universe and everything in it. The laws of physics exist because God made them so, similar to how the goverment makes laws. They existed before we discovered them, and by discovering them we can say "Wow, God knew what he was doing," and give him glory for that.

Now my standpoint: I believe that the Bible is complete truth, albeit not always blatantly outright - such as Jesus' parables and certain prophecies and things like that, which are true but require thought and, in the case of prophecy, patience to see as truth - and requires the necessary background to fully understand (society in the time of and for the Jews, a general knowledge of history in the Middle East in the time period, and looking at it with the mindset of the intended audience and not 2014 Americans). I believe in micro-evolution (*cough* adaptation *cough*) but not macro-evolution, as I have yet to see sufficient evidence for a "change of kinds".

On a similar matter, I see that Noah took two of every kind of animal onto the ark, not every species. A kind would be cat, dog, monkey, etc., and possibly even 2 large cats such as lions along with two domestic cats (as an example), depending on the exact meaning of kinds. In general terms, a good variety but not every one.

PS - while I enjoy discussing this topic with people, I am a student and may not be able to respond quickly.
Well, this will be interesting. Let me start out by introducing myself and giving a little bit of background so you know who I am. I am Shadow53 (sorry, no really names for now). I am 16, in my sophomore year of high school, and a "Christian".

I put quotes around "Christian" because there are many people out there who call themselves Christians, but don't even try to follow what the Bible says. A better, more specialized term for me would be a disciple. Now, I don't mean to come across as perfect, equal with Peter and John and the rest of the 13 (including Paul here) - I certainly am not. But I try, and that makes the difference.

I am not a Bible scholar, and do not have a doctorate in any field. Yet . But I have a mind for science, and a want to learn more about the Bible. I also steer clear of sources involving "answers" in the URL and try to stick to legitimate sources as much as I can, so rcarter2 (Sorry, not sure how to format names) should find my responses a little more satisfactory when it comes to sources.

I want to clear some things up as well. First of all, there are translation issues when it comes to going from Hebrew/Greek to English. Some translators/translations take more liberty in their translating than others in the process, which is why some versions say "whale" and some "fish" in the story of Jonah. I believe the original word was "fish", and people took that to mean "whale" when, personally, I think it was literally a large fish. A translation I like using - and would prefer if others used in this discussion as well, for reasons I will give soon - is the NET, found at net.bible.org, or the full revamped study version at lumina.bible.org.

I like this translation primarily because it was made by experts. The team was composed of 24 bible scholars, people who spent decades studying specific books and their historical background, the original language, as much required to get the original meaning of the book as they could. These scholars then translated the books that they were experts in, and made notes as they went - an average of 2 per verse - to explain why they translated the way that they did, as well sometimes the meaning of a word or phrase in the original language and how it could be interpreted in a different way, and how the one included in the translation is the most likely one. I could go on and on in explaining how they translated, but as they take up pages doing so in the free ebook download (without notes, sadly, but the online version has all 60,000+).

TL;DR: The translators of the NET knew what they were doing and did it well, and is IMO the best English translation that I have found.

Second of all, I will admit that I do not know everything, and may end up parroting someone else's argument. I will, however, look up evidence to support my standpoint, even if I quote someone who puts it better than I can.

A note to fightorace: I don't know how to make you see this as a reply to you (I would be greatful if someone could show me how to respond to multiple people at once, as I am new in the forums) but while us Christians/disciples do rely on faith for the things we do not understand, simply stating that we can disregard science as a whole is rather absurd, both to nonbelievers reading this and to me. Science - what Ken Ham called "Observational" or "Experimental" science - is how we discover how God created the universe and everything in it. The laws of physics exist because God made them so, similar to how the goverment makes laws. They existed before we discovered them, and by discovering them we can say "Wow, God knew what he was doing," and give him glory for that.

Now my standpoint: I believe that the Bible is complete truth, albeit not always blatantly outright - such as Jesus' parables and certain prophecies and things like that, which are true but require thought and, in the case of prophecy, patience to see as truth - and requires the necessary background to fully understand (society in the time of and for the Jews, a general knowledge of history in the Middle East in the time period, and looking at it with the mindset of the intended audience and not 2014 Americans). I believe in micro-evolution (*cough* adaptation *cough*) but not macro-evolution, as I have yet to see sufficient evidence for a "change of kinds".

On a similar matter, I see that Noah took two of every kind of animal onto the ark, not every species. A kind would be cat, dog, monkey, etc., and possibly even 2 large cats such as lions along with two domestic cats (as an example), depending on the exact meaning of kinds. In general terms, a good variety but not every one.

PS - while I enjoy discussing this topic with people, I am a student and may not be able to respond quickly.
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