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the role of relgion in government?
do u think relgion should have power in the government
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the role of relgion in government?

 

05-20-14 06:01 AM
thenumberone is Offline
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play4fun :
"you can see that those people have a low (or neglectful) understanding of scripture".
Every faith defending peace states that, and right or wrong, it does not mean that those supporting peace will find their way into office.
As soon as you put people into office based on faith as opposed to their qualifications to do the job, they will govern based on their morals. And if they believe non Christians are beneath them you can guarantee that its bad times for the minority's.
And that just is not fair.
When has a government actually been governed by religion and it been good? As far as im aware, its never occurred.
And its unsurprising, a government is meant to be occupied with the running of the state, good morals don't make for a good country. They wouldn't hinder it but focus on real issues is more important.
if their minister for education is talking about god all the time I have to wonder when he actually does any practical work.
play4fun :
"you can see that those people have a low (or neglectful) understanding of scripture".
Every faith defending peace states that, and right or wrong, it does not mean that those supporting peace will find their way into office.
As soon as you put people into office based on faith as opposed to their qualifications to do the job, they will govern based on their morals. And if they believe non Christians are beneath them you can guarantee that its bad times for the minority's.
And that just is not fair.
When has a government actually been governed by religion and it been good? As far as im aware, its never occurred.
And its unsurprising, a government is meant to be occupied with the running of the state, good morals don't make for a good country. They wouldn't hinder it but focus on real issues is more important.
if their minister for education is talking about god all the time I have to wonder when he actually does any practical work.
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05-20-14 06:11 PM
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play4fun : Stated previously, the Quran (the Muslim holy book) is not about violence. It's completely peaceful too, but then you get the extremists.
play4fun : Stated previously, the Quran (the Muslim holy book) is not about violence. It's completely peaceful too, but then you get the extremists.
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05-20-14 06:18 PM
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SilverHyruler :

Yes, everyone has their extremests.

BUT.

What does the said religion actually teach?

Let's say that this is the only verse in the Quaran.

"thou shalt kill Christians"

Are the muslims still extremists? or are they doing exactly what they are told to do?
SilverHyruler :

Yes, everyone has their extremests.

BUT.

What does the said religion actually teach?

Let's say that this is the only verse in the Quaran.

"thou shalt kill Christians"

Are the muslims still extremists? or are they doing exactly what they are told to do?
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05-20-14 06:24 PM
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play4fun : Do you really think that's in the Quran?
play4fun : Do you really think that's in the Quran?
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05-20-14 07:47 PM
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SilverHyruler : Was that last post intended for me, or for Sword Legion?

As for the other post, that's exactly what I'm saying. Are you going to think that it's going to happen the way that you described because of what extremists do, or what actual "just right" followers do and believe?
SilverHyruler : Was that last post intended for me, or for Sword Legion?

As for the other post, that's exactly what I'm saying. Are you going to think that it's going to happen the way that you described because of what extremists do, or what actual "just right" followers do and believe?
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05-20-14 08:09 PM
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thenumberone :

Let's not push that "no religion in government" too far. Good morals do not make good government, true. At the same time, good morals are a part of good government. I definitely don't want theocracy, but I kinda don't want absolute separation of church and state. Some sort of interaction is beneficial.

SilverHyruler :  

Couldn't agree more. Radicals should not be in power regardless. However, not all people who claim a religion are radicals.

Also, Mohammad was not a peaceful person. He waged lots of war. His followers waged war. Now, it's slightly peaceful. If you read the Quran, you will find verses like Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshiping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone." That was certainly practiced offensively; the Muslims took a very large empire from India to Hungry and all through Africa, up through Portugal and Spain, and even into France. That's a big empire.

Sword legion :  

Not that you're totally wrong, but Muslims no longer do that, especially in the western world and Indonesia. The only ones that really follow the old craziness are the radicals we hear of all too often - Hezbollah, Al Quid, etc.
thenumberone :

Let's not push that "no religion in government" too far. Good morals do not make good government, true. At the same time, good morals are a part of good government. I definitely don't want theocracy, but I kinda don't want absolute separation of church and state. Some sort of interaction is beneficial.

SilverHyruler :  

Couldn't agree more. Radicals should not be in power regardless. However, not all people who claim a religion are radicals.

Also, Mohammad was not a peaceful person. He waged lots of war. His followers waged war. Now, it's slightly peaceful. If you read the Quran, you will find verses like Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshiping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone." That was certainly practiced offensively; the Muslims took a very large empire from India to Hungry and all through Africa, up through Portugal and Spain, and even into France. That's a big empire.

Sword legion :  

Not that you're totally wrong, but Muslims no longer do that, especially in the western world and Indonesia. The only ones that really follow the old craziness are the radicals we hear of all too often - Hezbollah, Al Quid, etc.
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05-20-14 08:31 PM
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Txgangsta :

I've heard that Islam has talked about getting rid of it's radical ideas.

Really?

I've never heard of that, though I've thought for sure that I've somewhere in the Quaran where it says to kill the jews. . .

Or are there contradictions in the Quaran, so to speak, they are told to let the Jews live, and to kill them?

Just cause so many times people are like "oooh, the Bible has a contradiction" but they don't know. They don't know the Bible at all.


That is really interesting, I once looked up some Muslim theology and stuff. If what you have said is true, then I hope so. Although I hope that there is still some united force against the U.N. out there. :/
Txgangsta :

I've heard that Islam has talked about getting rid of it's radical ideas.

Really?

I've never heard of that, though I've thought for sure that I've somewhere in the Quaran where it says to kill the jews. . .

Or are there contradictions in the Quaran, so to speak, they are told to let the Jews live, and to kill them?

Just cause so many times people are like "oooh, the Bible has a contradiction" but they don't know. They don't know the Bible at all.


That is really interesting, I once looked up some Muslim theology and stuff. If what you have said is true, then I hope so. Although I hope that there is still some united force against the U.N. out there. :/
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05-20-14 10:16 PM
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Sword legion :

Ya, nearly all Muslims will tell you that they don't believe in violence. It's not part of the Quran, but whatever, it's better than the alternative.

Also, there are contradictions all over the Quran. That's not important to a Muslim. Muslim's believe reality is based upon the will of Allah. If the will of Allah changes, truth changes. Kill all the infidels! Nevermind! Focus on the Jews! Wait! Just peace! Ok, these guys are to focus on killing infidels, and you other guys are not.

The will of Allah is everything, even if it is arbitrary.
Sword legion :

Ya, nearly all Muslims will tell you that they don't believe in violence. It's not part of the Quran, but whatever, it's better than the alternative.

Also, there are contradictions all over the Quran. That's not important to a Muslim. Muslim's believe reality is based upon the will of Allah. If the will of Allah changes, truth changes. Kill all the infidels! Nevermind! Focus on the Jews! Wait! Just peace! Ok, these guys are to focus on killing infidels, and you other guys are not.

The will of Allah is everything, even if it is arbitrary.
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05-20-14 11:10 PM
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Txgangsta : Oh, yes, tell me more about how it's okay to kill any gays, but not okay to wage war.
Txgangsta : Oh, yes, tell me more about how it's okay to kill any gays, but not okay to wage war.
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05-20-14 11:17 PM
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SilverHyruler :

Since when have I said that? Do not slander me. And I never have said war is innately immoral, either. If you have something constructive to say, please do so.
SilverHyruler :

Since when have I said that? Do not slander me. And I never have said war is innately immoral, either. If you have something constructive to say, please do so.
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05-21-14 04:22 AM
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Txgangsta :
Id push no religion al the way.
A member of government has every right to hold whichever faith he sees faith, undeniably, but the moment they are elected on the platform of faith I am not happy. That is not a job qualification.
I do want absolute separation of C and S.
In my country (uk) this isnt even the case. Their is a level of government called the house of lords.
They are unelected. Traditionally they inherit the positions too. Most don't now, but they are never approved by the people.
In this house I believe something like 10 seats are reserved for bishops of the church of England.
Exactly what qualification they bring to government I do not know (all though frankly Id say the same about the house of lords as well, a subversion of democracy).

As for the empire, the Portuguese and Spanish took a much bigger combined empire, and they were absolutely pious about it. Everyone had to convert.
Britain owned most of India, Portugal only 2 small outposts.
yet their are more christian s from Portugal occupation of India than Britain's.

"If the will of Allah changes, truth changes. Kill all the infidels! Nevermind! Focus on the Jews! Wait! Just peace! Ok, these guys are to focus on killing infidels, and you other guys are not."

Thats quite a close minded thing to say, considering much of the same applies to Christianity (the old testament doesent apply anymore).
exactly what you said abut muslims is what many of them think of Christianity, and what non religious people think of Abrahamic religions.
As for the gay comments, I imagine S.H is referring to the bibles cruel interpretation of homosexuals, and his confusion at how you can then suggest the quaran is cruel.
Txgangsta :
Id push no religion al the way.
A member of government has every right to hold whichever faith he sees faith, undeniably, but the moment they are elected on the platform of faith I am not happy. That is not a job qualification.
I do want absolute separation of C and S.
In my country (uk) this isnt even the case. Their is a level of government called the house of lords.
They are unelected. Traditionally they inherit the positions too. Most don't now, but they are never approved by the people.
In this house I believe something like 10 seats are reserved for bishops of the church of England.
Exactly what qualification they bring to government I do not know (all though frankly Id say the same about the house of lords as well, a subversion of democracy).

As for the empire, the Portuguese and Spanish took a much bigger combined empire, and they were absolutely pious about it. Everyone had to convert.
Britain owned most of India, Portugal only 2 small outposts.
yet their are more christian s from Portugal occupation of India than Britain's.

"If the will of Allah changes, truth changes. Kill all the infidels! Nevermind! Focus on the Jews! Wait! Just peace! Ok, these guys are to focus on killing infidels, and you other guys are not."

Thats quite a close minded thing to say, considering much of the same applies to Christianity (the old testament doesent apply anymore).
exactly what you said abut muslims is what many of them think of Christianity, and what non religious people think of Abrahamic religions.
As for the gay comments, I imagine S.H is referring to the bibles cruel interpretation of homosexuals, and his confusion at how you can then suggest the quaran is cruel.
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06-07-14 03:52 PM
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The country was founded on Christian and Jewish beliefs. It's where many of our laws come from. Sadly we have really gotten away from that over the years and I don't think that's a good thing. People really need faith and they need hope, especially young people who go through a lot while growing up. I know others think we should have separation and they are entitled to their opinion, but I doubt anyone can show me how much better this country is since we took away prayer from schools and really any mention of God from our government agencies. It really seems like their is a lot of depression and despair and hopelessness in this country.
The country was founded on Christian and Jewish beliefs. It's where many of our laws come from. Sadly we have really gotten away from that over the years and I don't think that's a good thing. People really need faith and they need hope, especially young people who go through a lot while growing up. I know others think we should have separation and they are entitled to their opinion, but I doubt anyone can show me how much better this country is since we took away prayer from schools and really any mention of God from our government agencies. It really seems like their is a lot of depression and despair and hopelessness in this country.
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06-09-14 09:30 AM
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magimangr :

Actually, nearly every church father was deist, not Christian. They were a product of the Enlightenment era, and they reject the idea of God actively involved in daily life. God set the universe up like a clock and doesn't need to touch anything ever again. This is directly opposed to any sort of Christian and Jewish beliefs. The idea that the founding fathers based the nation on Christian values is a bold faced lie.

Edit: AMERICAN FATHERS! Wow, i just caught this. I need to stop and actually read what I write when I'm done...
magimangr :

Actually, nearly every church father was deist, not Christian. They were a product of the Enlightenment era, and they reject the idea of God actively involved in daily life. God set the universe up like a clock and doesn't need to touch anything ever again. This is directly opposed to any sort of Christian and Jewish beliefs. The idea that the founding fathers based the nation on Christian values is a bold faced lie.

Edit: AMERICAN FATHERS! Wow, i just caught this. I need to stop and actually read what I write when I'm done...
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(edited by Txgangsta on 06-18-14 10:52 PM)    

06-16-14 01:00 PM
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I think it should be separated just like science and religion should. Those are things are just never going to agree with each other. An a lot of places don't go by that anyway. For instance in a lot of the southern states places you cant buy booze on Sunday. Why?? Because of church so its little things like that. That work the system.
I think it should be separated just like science and religion should. Those are things are just never going to agree with each other. An a lot of places don't go by that anyway. For instance in a lot of the southern states places you cant buy booze on Sunday. Why?? Because of church so its little things like that. That work the system.
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lilythetigerkity :

Science and religion shouldn't be separated at all. If they're both true, they won't contradict. There is one truth, and it permeates everything.

Once the above is realized, it's hard to see any reason behind limiting the government to only truths in certain areas. A religion is either true or false, and that truth doesn't need to be ignored.

However, I do completely and totally agree that the government shouldn't have any powers over religion and religion should not have any powers over government. They are separate institutions operating independently, yet both are concerned with the same justice, temperance, courage, prudence, and other aspects of human excellence.
lilythetigerkity :

Science and religion shouldn't be separated at all. If they're both true, they won't contradict. There is one truth, and it permeates everything.

Once the above is realized, it's hard to see any reason behind limiting the government to only truths in certain areas. A religion is either true or false, and that truth doesn't need to be ignored.

However, I do completely and totally agree that the government shouldn't have any powers over religion and religion should not have any powers over government. They are separate institutions operating independently, yet both are concerned with the same justice, temperance, courage, prudence, and other aspects of human excellence.
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Does anyone really think it's good for people to not have faith? Look at all the problems in this world and how we have no respect for life in the US. The crime rates are through the roof and there are more poor and hopeless people than ever. I know a lot of people who don't have faith and many are totally miserable. Then sometimes they find faith (real faith) and it changes their lives for the better. If we were smart we would get over the political correctness and start helping others to have faith and hope in their lives.

Also, if the founding fathers didn't believe in God why are our laws based so much on the Bible and why does our money say "In God We Trust".
Does anyone really think it's good for people to not have faith? Look at all the problems in this world and how we have no respect for life in the US. The crime rates are through the roof and there are more poor and hopeless people than ever. I know a lot of people who don't have faith and many are totally miserable. Then sometimes they find faith (real faith) and it changes their lives for the better. If we were smart we would get over the political correctness and start helping others to have faith and hope in their lives.

Also, if the founding fathers didn't believe in God why are our laws based so much on the Bible and why does our money say "In God We Trust".
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magimangr :

"Also, if the founding fathers didn't believe in God why are our laws based so much on the Bible and why does our money say "In God We Trust"."

They're not based on the bible. They're primarily based on John Locke's political writings. And they reference a god because they were deists. They did believe in a god, just not the Christian one.
magimangr :

"Also, if the founding fathers didn't believe in God why are our laws based so much on the Bible and why does our money say "In God We Trust"."

They're not based on the bible. They're primarily based on John Locke's political writings. And they reference a god because they were deists. They did believe in a god, just not the Christian one.
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