This is a interesting topic..

Your post was by far to read completely.. I just read some parts of it..

Being gay is for me nature's error.. Even animals can get gay... so since the fact that god created everything even the nature.. Would that's say that god failed to create nature in some parts?.. Well.. For me: Yes..
we humans can be gay. As well as your dog can.. Or the bears outside in the forest.. Its nothing rare in this world.. Yet its unnatural and a strange behavior..

I'm not really against homosexual people.. They are people just like you and me.. And they have different feelings about what is good or bad..
most of the homosexual people in the world seems to be atheist.. Or some of them are Muslim for some strange reason.... these people have a different sight of making love, love, and loving.
there us also 2 different kind of homosexuals
we have the homosexuals who are attracted by there own gender. And want to live with these to be happy ever after..
but there are also homosexual people we commits the sin lust as  it is breakfast..
they only think about sex indeed.. This is for me unacceptable.. God didn't create us to make sex with our own gender.. I think that loving a man as being a man is a different aspect as wanting to butt bang a guy you never saw in your life just because you have to much lust in your life.. This is just sick and wrong.. And i personally disgust these persons.. Although.. They are just humans and persons just like us..

even in the hetero sexual world there are these who a perverted and only think about sex.. So not only homosexual people can be in love or can be just willing sex.. Even heterosexual people have this desire.. So this makes homosexual equal to every others..
we all have our days of wanting more sex. Or wanting less sex.. For some heterosexuals this is a controlled matter.. For some heterosexual or homosexual its a uncontrolled desire.. They are not always the blame of it..
As for me . I'm heterosexual.. And i have a strange desire for sex. Since my fourth year... and trust me.. This is not cool to have....

as pray is already pointing toward among others like: bomchu link... homos is not something you should use in a chat!. So if you can't talk serious about this subject go away..

sorry for the interruption...
homosexual is a  error in the balance of nature.. I already told that... because homosexuality is also a common sight with animals.
as for why.. I don't know.. As Christians says. God gave us the will to obey, or disobey.
homosexual individuals most likely disobey the nature's law of propagation maybe even while not noticing it.
my girlfriend was bi sexual before she went back to me.. She had a relationship wit a girl. She didn't do anything with her.. She though that she liked her because everyone said that they supposed to be together. So not only gender interest can play a role. But also the surrounding areas you live in.
if everyone body in your area seems to be homosexual you're more likely to became one yourself.. Because its becomes normal behavior in that  area.. Or well.. That's how i think..
it can be related to smoking.. If you see everyone smoking your urge to smoke will became stronger.. With expectation of people with a strong will..

Its a rarity in this world that homosexual humans are yet to be given any tolerant.. They are human just like you and me.. I already told you that.
and as homosexual is a sin. Yes. It pretty much is.. Its against god's will.. But this makes them no demons or devils..
how are we supposed to be accepted if people don't accept?.. If a homosexual doesn't respect you is  that because you don't respect.. Now, now lets not take this as a: so homosexuals are allowed? Because this is answer that is really hard to give..
no homosexuality is not allowed in this world.. Yet to forbid homosexuals to live is impossible.. As it is said by some people. "you don't choose if you're either hetero sexual or homo sexual, this are feelings that you can not control yourself". Why do you people think that homosexual people are most likely silent about this subject... because they feel a bit ashamed.. Specially at the moment they discovered it..
they need time to accept it. And then live on.. This is indeed only meant for homosexuals.. To come back to bombchu link.. I hate it when people say homos. Or use this kind of world as cursing to hurt other people.. This does not take the fact away that i hate gays being to much sexual active in the way of bothering others with it.. Or wanting to have sex with the same gender just pure out of fun..
this is unacceptable  in my personal opinion. And these people should indeed not be accepted by god..
there are most likely also these homosexuals who do feel the sick desire to have sex with there own gender.. But they don't give them self to it. of them are even sticking with prostitution (females) to calm this desire.

so i don't think that you, or any other human can say: "hey, look they is a homo" and why can't? Because they are human.. Just like you, me, and the rest of the world..
how would you like if homosexuals across the street shouting : "hey look that stupid straight head! Aha such a straight!".
its might seems a bit stupid.. But this is the exact same thing as call ling homosexuals "gay,homos". Got it?

*sigh*.. This world is by far to narrow minded to be accepted by god if i can be honest.
to much things are happening these days.. If it is abusing, raping, homosexuality, war, destruction go call out some things you already saw yourself..
i have a question? Do you think. That god would accept you more.. If you call a homosexual homo?.. NO.. Even IF homosexual is forbidden. They are still a creation of god..and god will not forgive this act..
And indeed.. Since i'm the one who hates humanity. And who is blaming god for creating us.. God would sure be mad on me.. But even with my hate toward humanity.. Even i can accept individuals such as homosexuality. And i do not hate humans.. I hate humanity.. So this goes about the beings called humanity.. Not a human in person.. So i don't hate you guys on vizzed.. Nor do i disgust you.
i hate these people above us all.. We are playing a role game with all of us.. Making us move like puppets and hiding stuff from us.. That are the kind of humans i really hate and disgust..

Anyways this is getting a bit personal.. I hope people will learn from my post..
you people cannot hate homosexuality as much as i hate humanity.. And still being able to respect and accept homosexuals and humans..
so get over this narrow minded sickness and step forward...

Greetings to all, may god cure you for all your sickness and may god forgive our sins, Yngwie

[Edited due to meaningless and inappropriate comment.] ~play4fun

slimeface1212 : That is offensive and you shouldn't mention things like that on a family site.....

iN00,thats just my opinion L

Sword legion :  "Even if its true it needs to be changed."  That makes no sense.  Why would they change the truth and tell you a bunch of lies?  The whole point of these studies is to discover whether or not they are gay by choice.

The USA was not founded on Christianity.  The whole point of moving to America was to create a place where people could have freedom of religion.  

You say people with mental disabilities and gay people do not belong here.  So basically you are saying that the imperfect people shouldn't be here.  You sound like Adolf Hitler.

"People have gone from gay to straight.  That is my evidence."  Thats not evidence, that is just stating something and assuming you are correct.  Which is also usually BS.

You are one of the most ignorant human beings I have ever met.  Since you demand evidence, which you will probably just deny and claim that it all has to do with your God, i'm going to give you your evidence.

Proof of people being born gay

Proof that the USA was not founded on Christianity

Care to show me the evidence that all of the things that your "God" says is true?

Good day to you, sir.

slimeface1212 : Your post did not contribute to the discussion and it was inappropriate. I have edited your post. Do not do it again. You have been warned.

I am for gay mariage. I will always be always for gay mariage. I will always support gay mariage.

I have absolutely no problem if people are against homosexuality on a religious stance. Everyone is free to do so, and power to them. But I am against the idea of forcing beliefs on others. One thing I absolutely hate is when people make the argument that because many of the founding fathers were Christian men, our country was founded upon Christianity. That is as as opposite from the truth as you can get. Our Christian forefathers left the Eastern and came to have a nation where you had religious freedom. The reason why they left is because their king made one religion absolute law, and others were pretty much forbidden. They founded this country to be free from religious prosecution so people could live, worship, or not worship how they pleased. That was the true purpose of the foundation of this country. So outlawing something in this country solely based on ones religious belief is actually doing exactly what our forefathers left were escaping from when they left Europe. Again, everyone has a right to religiously believe what they want. But given that this country is founded upon the belief that we should all be free from religious prosecution, I feel that we have no right to outlaw something such as gay marriage simply because our personal religious beliefs says it is wrong. Not everyone in this country is Christian, and it is not right to force them to follow the rules of a religion that they are not even a part of. Christianity is NOT some official US religion, this country was NOT founded upon Christianity, so if you want to live in a country that makes a religion the dictation of the whole country, then the US is not the right place for you. It has nothing to do with being sensitive, avoid hurting everyone's feelings, etc. It has to do with following the belief that this country should be free from being forced into any one religion. That is exactly what is happening when you outlaw gay marriage because of your religious beliefs.

I actually think that it is hypocritical for us as Christians to not make gay marriage legal. You are pretty much promoting that because the religious belief is that homosexuality is wrong, we have make sure our whole country follows it. So why are you just saying gay marriage? For the Catholics (which are Christian), you are required to attend the church service on the Holy Day of Obligation. Why not try to force everyone to have ash crosses on their forehead on Ash Wednesday? Why not say everyone has to either fast or give up a luxury during lent to show penitence? Why do we not force everyone in the country to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ? Why not make a law that makes it to where everyone must remember the Sabbath Day and keep it Holy?

I am not asking this questions to be rhetorical. I seriously want you to answer that paragraph. Do you think it is our duty to try to make the entire nation have to follow those rules and rituals? If you do not believe so, then your whole first post is a big pile of hypocrisy. You can't say we have to force this one religious belief on the whole country if you are not willing to go all the way and say that all of your religious beliefs must be forced upon the entire nation to follow. You can't pick and choose. Doing so is no different that being lukewarm in the eyes of the Lord, and the Lord spits out those who are lukewarm.

This is not about being sensitive. This is not about walking on eggshells. This is not about living in the stone ages. This is purely a matter of having no right to force those who do not share your religious belief to follow your religious teaching. There are religions out there that do not condemn homosexuals. Everyone has the right to their own religion, and it is bigotry to outlaw and condemn those who are not of your religion. So unless you are willing to not stop at gay marriage and actually stop when the whole country must obediently follow the Bible, I think it is time to sit in the corner until you can stop being hypocritical yourself.

metroidhunter72 : There are a couple of problems with the "evidence" you presented, and I'm going to be real quick about explaining it.

The proof of people being born gay is not proof, even according to the article. The study centered around homosexual men, and the observation was that there were increased rates of maternal uncles and male cousins being homosexual, which suggested the possibility of sex-linked transmission. A possibility is proof, or else there would be no debate on the issue. It's similar to the Big Bang Theory or the Theory of Evolution, neither being proven. If you know anything about statistics and studies, you'll no doubt realize that the number of cases was rather low.

Second, according to the Treaty of Tripoli, it states: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

What this means is that the United States is not at war with a Muslim country because it's Muslim, as we are not a theocracy in the sense that Christianity is not our national religion. What it doesn't mean is that there is no influence of Christian doctrine or principles in the Constitution or the formation of the United States in general, because it evident that most of the men were Christian and were obviously influenced by their religion in the way they conducted themselves. It is important for all of us to know the difference between being founded on and having to adhere to the standards of a religion (i.e. Saudi Arabia), and a country's founding being influenced by a religion. People need to understand that we are not a theocracy, but they also need to understand that Christianity did play a vital role in the founding of this nation.

I used to be one of those guys that made a big fuss about homosexuality as if it's this seriously wicked and crooked sin.  I just didn't understood it at the time.  Now I have a much clearer picture and more insight in the matter.  I have mentioned this before, but it is just another branch on the tree of sin (lying, stealing, adultery, blaspheming etc. being other branches).  I have lied, I have stolen (internet piracy), I have committed adultery in my heart - Jesus said in the Bible, Matthew 5:28:  "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."  That's how seriously God views this.  This applies to everyone (men looking at other men with lust, woman looking at other women with lust , women looking at other men with lust etc.)  So I'm no better that anyone else.  I've just come to realise that one day I will be judged by God for the things that I have done, and God, being good, holy, perfect and righteous, will not let any of those sins go unpunished.  I was a criminal in God's eyes, because that's how He views you if you have broken His law.  If a murderer stands in front of a judge and just tells the judge, "I'm sorry for what I have done" that would not matter.  If he's a good judge, he will not let the murderer go free - he will be held accountable for his actions and will face a severe penalty.  It doesn't matter if the murderer says, "I don't believe in the electric chair", he is still going to be sentenced to death.  So it doesn't matter if you don't believe in the Bible or in hell or whatever, you still have to face God on Judgement day.  If you've admitted that you're a liar, a thief and that you have committed adultery in your heart, your conscience will affirm the truth of God's law (10 commandments) and the Word of God (regardless of your lack of belief in it) is faithful to bring conviction through the power of the Holy Spirit.
I came to this realisation and learnt the only way I could be set free of this judgement and from spending eternity in hell (because that's the punishment for committing those "crimes"), is to grab onto the only way that God has made available FOR ALL OF US to be set free from judgement for breaking God's law.  (I know I'm repeating myself in a couple of posts but I'll do this as many times as it takes)  God sent His only Son, Jesus Christ to take that punishment that was meant for you and me and He suffered and died for your crimes on that cross as an expression of His love for sinners like you and me.  We broke God's law, Jesus paid our fine with His own blood, He rose from death and if you turn away from your sin (repent) and trust and believe in Jesus with all your heart to save you, God will forgive you and make you a new person on the inside.  God will grant you eternal life.  You will be set free when your "court case" comes up during Judgement day.
I've grabbed hold of these promises and believe and trust God and although I'm not better than anyone else, I know I will be better off.  

So while there are degrees of sin, both homosexuals and fornicators (people having sex outside of marriage) will not be heirs to Heaven (1 Cor. 6:9). So will liars, blasphemers, thieves etc.  Homosexuality and fornication are evident branches on the tree of sin.  If we as Christians just focus on these, the person practicing homosexuality might just "prune" the branch, but sin is still alive while the root remains. So don't be fooled into giving your attention to the branch. Ignore it, and instead put your energies into the cause rather than the symptom. Again, it is the sinful nature that feeds the sinful life.

SoL@R :
Shingeli:
play4fun :
pray75 :

before I submitted this I was considering going back through it and softening it up
but didn't make time.

Since you all think I was a little to harsh I'll tone it down a little bit.

I really appreciate the compliment pray75.

But am surprised at how much action  there is here.

Due to a lack of time I'll have to come back to respond to everyone.

One thing that I have been thinking about is how the progressives don't like us calling
terrorists terrorists, and how they want us to be politically correct.

The reason that they want this is because we could call them 
what they really are if it weren't for political correctness.

Of course there is a balance.

Sword legion :
Make a different thread for that topic.
I know you want to cover news and learn and score. (Good Job. Thumbs Up.)
But
You have to organize a little.
Other than that...
The alternate words used to describe people who kill others is getting too wild for my tastes. I recommend reading some "George Carlin" if you want an entertaining Book or two on how language in america has evolved and mutated to accomodate the most absurd behavior. Much of it is insulting to the average intelegent mind.
The majority of these alterations seem to be influenced by political agenda-ed people (trust me that that is even more insulting).
When I was a kid the alterations to language was only present for local identification.
Recognizing a person who was a little street wise or pure country for example.
Occasionally?? Alterations were made by the youth to identify who was "in" or accepted.
Today??
Allot of those kids grew-up and are now in the drivers seat (in power) or plainly lost.
They forgot about their cause but still cling to the made-up language that solves nothing.

I hardly recognize this country now.
Yet still there are fools that will cling to a language that gets nothing done and no one paid.

Good Luck To All.
I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.

orionfoxgibson : I should Pm you and have a conversation about it!

But you know how you said that you aren't smart until you can teach someone else something?

I have learned that you can only teach, after you have learned.
I have had the privilege of speaking to many learned people, many who age above 50.

I take to heart the Bible verse that says to honor your elders.
They have a lot of wisdom.

And besides you just taught me something small. 

Sword legion : It's almost like you people don't really -try- anymore. Have you ever HEARD of "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? If you want to change something in the United States, you need real evidence and a righteous cause. The Bible (a book which cites itself as a source, not very reliable in any real court of any kind) isn't the sort of evidence you need, and the cause to limit other human beings' civil liberties is not righteous. On the other hand, I assume you also haven't heard, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
Another thing you stated which disturbed me greatly is a blatant disregard for facts: the concept of marriage was -not- invented by Christians. It's been around for a very long time. The federal government will not recognize "Christian marriage" as the only marriage.
While your religion may be important to you, you cannot forget that while you're in America, your religion is not and will never be what's best for every American. Being forced to conform to a certain religion is a pretty big reason why America was founded to begin with; to escape an atrocity such as state-mandated religion. You may think all of America being Christian would bring back morals (only a fool would even suggest that America is amoral anyway), but the brutal communist societies of the world also forced one mindset unto its people.
You know what's worse than an America where people are allowed to choose for themselves, live how they want, and live happily with each other? An America that cracks down on free-thinking and the pursuit of happiness. One last thing, if marriage is sacred and should be protected from the "heretic homosexuals", then I guess Christians should never divorce.



orionfoxgibson : I hope you're not implying that George Carlin wasn't intelligent, because you misspelled it.

After analyzing this thread back and forth many times, I hesitated at first, but ultimately decided to try and input into this conversation.

This conversation has become ultimately one-sided, and I feel that the pro-gay marriage side has not been supported adequately. I know that most all of you are firm on your position, but I figured it's worth a shot to help provide another side to the issue.

With all due respect to Sword legion, I found his argument to be not only offensive, but also incredibly closed-minded and ill-supported. Sword legion continuously states that he views all homosexuals as perverted, twisted, and a few other adjectives, which doesn't contribute to the debate at all and only makes him and his side seem more bigoted than what it's worth.

Sword legion stated that gay marriage should not be allowed because his god disallows it and it goes against some of the morals outlined in his scripture. I do not wish to take a stance on religion, but rather point out this: how is it any of your business? It has been proven numerous times that children raised by homosexual parents turn out no different than ones raised by heterosexual parents.

Furthermore, homosexuality is NOT "contagious," and it is not something that can be simply chosen in the way that many anti-gay people believe. It's not a disease, and I think that it'd be best if you'd stop treating it as such.

There is absolutely no Constitutional support for your definition of traditional marriage, nor is there a clause within the freedom of religion that allows people to dictate who and what people love. In fact, the Constitution supports gay marriage numerous times, through constantly talking about people's rights to liberty and equality. Your argument regarding the Constitution and the USA's "Christian roots" are not only a poor basis for an argument, but also COMPLETELY FALSE. In fact, a great majority of the United States' founding fathers were either deist or non-religious. That's right, not only is there very little roots in Christianity in the United States, but many of the founding fathers were against organized religion. Read more here.

Finally, until you can provide an accurate definition of the morals you hold up that cites something besides the Bible, I find it difficult to buy that argument. An internationally accepted document outlining morals and basic rights, the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights, essentially supports the notion of gay marriage, directly through Article 16 and indirectly through many others.

Ultimately, although I respect your opinions, I find your arguments too intolerant and ill-supported to effectively attempt to buy into them.

Sephitard9001 :

Say What? "The Devils in the details".

Why would anyone read a persons work they did not like.???

Plus Using the words "You People" narrows down nothing.

It is often used by hateful folks that are unrestrained.

Continuing a conversation that went cold can be a silly act that makes no sense.

I wish you luck anyway.

Good Luck To All.
I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.

orionfoxgibson : Because George Carlin uses very harsh language, which is part of what you were talking about. That's why I clarified what you meant before accusing you. And "You people" was very obviously directed toward anti-gay-marriage advocates, considering that's the thread title and topic of his post.

I am going to play by the rules set forth from the start of this thread, and be completely blunt.
this is cherrypicking at its worst.
people ignore the scriptures that impede them, and instead harass others.
leviticus is the old testament. if I quote something from there you disagree with, you will say it isnt relevant since the old testament isnt applicable.
and yet when it comes tp gays, its always a leviticus quote.
quit the double standards.

you know whats more of an abomination than gays?
picking on people because they are weaker than you.
frankly, this is tiring. peopleeclaim that lack of christian values is morraly bankrupting the nation. but what morals do we see here? attack the minoritys.
if god is all powerfull, why do you have the right to judge?
its clearly stated he is the judge of man, not you.
what atheist is attackibg people for being gay?
their is belief.
then their is hate.
some people fail to distinguish the line.
if Christianity is about love you should show it better.
because all I see here is fundamentalism.