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Should a drug test be required...

 

09-28-12 08:20 PM
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Straight to the point...should a person who wishes to recieve welfare benefits (unemployment benefits, food stamps, housing, etc.) be required to take a drug test and why?
Straight to the point...should a person who wishes to recieve welfare benefits (unemployment benefits, food stamps, housing, etc.) be required to take a drug test and why?
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09-28-12 09:58 PM
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I don't think that everyone who has to go on welfare for a while should be required to take a drug test. That just solidifies some bad stereotype that everyone on welfare does drugs. Yes, there are a lot of people who completely abuse the welfare system and also happen to be drug users. But there are also a lot of people who use welfare for the reason it was designed, which is a means of helping you get back on your feet if you fall on hard times. It is supposed to help those people keep their homes while they find a means of being able to care for themselves financially again. So should every person who might get laid off and have to go on welfare, get food stamps, etc, have to take a drug test to get that help while they look for a position somewhere else? That is just like squirting lemon juice on the already open wound in my opinion. It's insulting. Now, I would have no problem with it if you tried to apply for those benefits and have a history of drug use. Sure, those people should be required. But we can't just assume someone with no record of it might be drug users just because they have to apply for those benefits.
I don't think that everyone who has to go on welfare for a while should be required to take a drug test. That just solidifies some bad stereotype that everyone on welfare does drugs. Yes, there are a lot of people who completely abuse the welfare system and also happen to be drug users. But there are also a lot of people who use welfare for the reason it was designed, which is a means of helping you get back on your feet if you fall on hard times. It is supposed to help those people keep their homes while they find a means of being able to care for themselves financially again. So should every person who might get laid off and have to go on welfare, get food stamps, etc, have to take a drug test to get that help while they look for a position somewhere else? That is just like squirting lemon juice on the already open wound in my opinion. It's insulting. Now, I would have no problem with it if you tried to apply for those benefits and have a history of drug use. Sure, those people should be required. But we can't just assume someone with no record of it might be drug users just because they have to apply for those benefits.
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09-28-12 10:18 PM
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I completely agree with you, but I also think that the same should go for those who are employed. If you have no past criminal record or history of drug use, most all companies are still able to require a drug test before they hire you. Considering the fact that the funding for the welfare program comes from the tax dollars of the working class, it seems unfair that we would be required to take drug tests to work and be taxed, but those on welfare aren't required to prove anything to receive our hard earned taxes. I believe that there should be a law to test those who have a history of drug abuse before they receive welfare benefits, but I also believe there should be a law that exempts employees with no past history as well. That seems only fair to me.
I completely agree with you, but I also think that the same should go for those who are employed. If you have no past criminal record or history of drug use, most all companies are still able to require a drug test before they hire you. Considering the fact that the funding for the welfare program comes from the tax dollars of the working class, it seems unfair that we would be required to take drug tests to work and be taxed, but those on welfare aren't required to prove anything to receive our hard earned taxes. I believe that there should be a law to test those who have a history of drug abuse before they receive welfare benefits, but I also believe there should be a law that exempts employees with no past history as well. That seems only fair to me.
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09-28-12 10:22 PM
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GuardianZack : I agree with you to an extent, but there are some issues with that. Would you really want a meth user teaching your kids at school or doing surgery? There are just some jobs that I don't think that they should just trust someone because they haven't been caught doing drugs. Thing is, if you make some jobs exempt from drug tests, you kind of have to apply it to all jobs.
GuardianZack : I agree with you to an extent, but there are some issues with that. Would you really want a meth user teaching your kids at school or doing surgery? There are just some jobs that I don't think that they should just trust someone because they haven't been caught doing drugs. Thing is, if you make some jobs exempt from drug tests, you kind of have to apply it to all jobs.
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09-28-12 10:36 PM
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I was hoping you would say that, actually. The point I was trying to make, is that if you exempt some on welfare from taking drug tests and you don't others, that would still cause a lot of tension between beneficiaries, so in order for it to be equal, you would have to test everyone. Just as you would have to test everyone in the working class to rule out discrimination and because it is necessary, the same would have to go for testing beneficiaries to make sure that the tax dollars were being spent efficiently and not fueling someone's addictions. Just because you have no past record of drug abuse doesn't mean that testing employees isn't necessary; ensuring the government makes good use of our hard-earned money is just as important. So considering this, wouldn't it be better just to test everyone?


I was hoping you would say that, actually. The point I was trying to make, is that if you exempt some on welfare from taking drug tests and you don't others, that would still cause a lot of tension between beneficiaries, so in order for it to be equal, you would have to test everyone. Just as you would have to test everyone in the working class to rule out discrimination and because it is necessary, the same would have to go for testing beneficiaries to make sure that the tax dollars were being spent efficiently and not fueling someone's addictions. Just because you have no past record of drug abuse doesn't mean that testing employees isn't necessary; ensuring the government makes good use of our hard-earned money is just as important. So considering this, wouldn't it be better just to test everyone?

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(edited by GuardianZack on 09-28-12 10:38 PM)    

09-29-12 12:07 AM
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No. The vast majority of those who receive any benefits don't use drugs, and the cost of administering drug tests would outweigh the amount of money saved by denying benefits to those who failed the test.

There's also the issue of whether or not drug testing welfare recipients is unconstitutional.
No. The vast majority of those who receive any benefits don't use drugs, and the cost of administering drug tests would outweigh the amount of money saved by denying benefits to those who failed the test.

There's also the issue of whether or not drug testing welfare recipients is unconstitutional.
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10-02-12 12:34 PM
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Soxfan849: So far only Florida's drug testing law has been declared unconstitutional (I forget the reason why it was, but I can just google search it to find out). That doesn't stop, however other states in the United States to try and pass similar legislation to pass and be enacted. Plus I believe the Florida law is in an appeal's court so it might take some time before we know officially if it's unconstitutional and even then lawmakers will review what the Judges ruled what was wrong with it and find another way to pass drug testing laws.

GuardianZack : Their is just 1 problem with your statement. Private companies have the right to ask you to anything if you seek to be employed by them (as long as it's not illegal or go against the United States Constitution). If you refuse to constent to anything a Private company wants you to do before you can get the job (drug test), then they can deny you the job becuase you can always go to another company for employment. It's like if a child is being a pain in the butt on an airplane, then the airplane can kick you off the plane because you can always take another mode of transportation (car, train, bus) to get somewhere (it just might take longer then it would if you were on a plane, but you can do it.) If you don't want to take a urine test, then your free to look for work with a company that doesn't require a drug test to be considered to a job.

But back to the issue: I believe that we need some welfare reform to make sure people don't abuse the system. But drug testing is not the answer.
Soxfan849: So far only Florida's drug testing law has been declared unconstitutional (I forget the reason why it was, but I can just google search it to find out). That doesn't stop, however other states in the United States to try and pass similar legislation to pass and be enacted. Plus I believe the Florida law is in an appeal's court so it might take some time before we know officially if it's unconstitutional and even then lawmakers will review what the Judges ruled what was wrong with it and find another way to pass drug testing laws.

GuardianZack : Their is just 1 problem with your statement. Private companies have the right to ask you to anything if you seek to be employed by them (as long as it's not illegal or go against the United States Constitution). If you refuse to constent to anything a Private company wants you to do before you can get the job (drug test), then they can deny you the job becuase you can always go to another company for employment. It's like if a child is being a pain in the butt on an airplane, then the airplane can kick you off the plane because you can always take another mode of transportation (car, train, bus) to get somewhere (it just might take longer then it would if you were on a plane, but you can do it.) If you don't want to take a urine test, then your free to look for work with a company that doesn't require a drug test to be considered to a job.

But back to the issue: I believe that we need some welfare reform to make sure people don't abuse the system. But drug testing is not the answer.
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10-02-12 02:21 PM
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Oldschool41 : I understand what you are saying, but I was just trying to make the point that the working class and those on welfare are not on equal grounds. There are many hoops to jump through in order to find a job, but most of the people on welfare are able to obtain those benefits with very little effort. For instance, my ex-girlfriend still gets food stamps and equal-opportunity housing, and she is a nurse that makes good money. I don't know how it is for the rest of the United States, but here in Tennessee, pretty much every single person out of a large number of people I am acquainted with, either do cocaine or have multiple children just so they can mooch off the government without working. Drug testing isn't extremely hard to get around even if you do drugs, so in the long run not only would it cost more than necessary, but it would also serve little purpose.

The main reason I would support a drug test, is simply principle. It just isn't fair how much the average taxpayer has to go through in order to make ends meet, and then end up having to shell out a hefty sum of their hard earned money on top of that, all to fund programs that are either abused or doomed for failure. Even if drug testing and monthly inspections push the boundaries of the constitution, the fact that we are basically forced to pay taxes for whatever the government sees fit to use it for is just as equally unconstitutional. The sad part is, in many instances the constitution itself is unconstitutional, because it has been revised to fit the needs of select individuals rather than protect the rights of many. Drug testing may be a breach of privacy, but isn't listening to our phone conversations and spying on an entire nation of people through outrageous methods unconstitutional as well? They say that it is for the 'safety' of our people, but in all honesty, I am more afraid of my own government terrorizing me than I am any specific group or individual. So, what about the 'safety' of our tax dollars? If sacrificing our privacy is little price to pay for our overall protection, is it not also a small price to pay to ensure our financial and economic stability?

Honestly though, I am getting way off topic here. My general point, is that regardless of the method in which most all of our government programs end up being regulated, there still needs to be drastic reform and redistribution of funds. In order to feel as though we are citizens whom are being treated equally, it is our right to know that our taxes are being used to benefit the nation, and that they are being distributed under regulations which make sure the distribution is done properly.

My fingers are tired :/
Oldschool41 : I understand what you are saying, but I was just trying to make the point that the working class and those on welfare are not on equal grounds. There are many hoops to jump through in order to find a job, but most of the people on welfare are able to obtain those benefits with very little effort. For instance, my ex-girlfriend still gets food stamps and equal-opportunity housing, and she is a nurse that makes good money. I don't know how it is for the rest of the United States, but here in Tennessee, pretty much every single person out of a large number of people I am acquainted with, either do cocaine or have multiple children just so they can mooch off the government without working. Drug testing isn't extremely hard to get around even if you do drugs, so in the long run not only would it cost more than necessary, but it would also serve little purpose.

The main reason I would support a drug test, is simply principle. It just isn't fair how much the average taxpayer has to go through in order to make ends meet, and then end up having to shell out a hefty sum of their hard earned money on top of that, all to fund programs that are either abused or doomed for failure. Even if drug testing and monthly inspections push the boundaries of the constitution, the fact that we are basically forced to pay taxes for whatever the government sees fit to use it for is just as equally unconstitutional. The sad part is, in many instances the constitution itself is unconstitutional, because it has been revised to fit the needs of select individuals rather than protect the rights of many. Drug testing may be a breach of privacy, but isn't listening to our phone conversations and spying on an entire nation of people through outrageous methods unconstitutional as well? They say that it is for the 'safety' of our people, but in all honesty, I am more afraid of my own government terrorizing me than I am any specific group or individual. So, what about the 'safety' of our tax dollars? If sacrificing our privacy is little price to pay for our overall protection, is it not also a small price to pay to ensure our financial and economic stability?

Honestly though, I am getting way off topic here. My general point, is that regardless of the method in which most all of our government programs end up being regulated, there still needs to be drastic reform and redistribution of funds. In order to feel as though we are citizens whom are being treated equally, it is our right to know that our taxes are being used to benefit the nation, and that they are being distributed under regulations which make sure the distribution is done properly.

My fingers are tired :/
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10-02-12 03:56 PM
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Yes definetly a drug test for welfare recipitants, especialy when kids are involved because if a parent can't buy food they shouldn't be buying drugs, period. Although i'm poor and i buy ciggerettes and stuff i don't have any kids and i prefer to work for my money.
Yes definetly a drug test for welfare recipitants, especialy when kids are involved because if a parent can't buy food they shouldn't be buying drugs, period. Although i'm poor and i buy ciggerettes and stuff i don't have any kids and i prefer to work for my money.
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10-02-12 04:03 PM
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Jih: The only problem I have with your statement is that if the kids are going to suffer either or. Meaning that lets say a parent tests positive for drug use and they can't get any benefits until a specific time (time will depend on by what lawmakers would consider reasonable amount of time.) If that money that the parents are using to help the child out, then the child also suffers as well. It's a tough issue.
Jih: The only problem I have with your statement is that if the kids are going to suffer either or. Meaning that lets say a parent tests positive for drug use and they can't get any benefits until a specific time (time will depend on by what lawmakers would consider reasonable amount of time.) If that money that the parents are using to help the child out, then the child also suffers as well. It's a tough issue.
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10-02-12 04:06 PM
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I think so because people that be on drugs more likely would do somthing stupid like sign up for welfare, and if they drug test them then they know that the be on drugs and really don't need welfare objects. I think thats a really good idea to drug test people that sign up for welfare.
I think so because people that be on drugs more likely would do somthing stupid like sign up for welfare, and if they drug test them then they know that the be on drugs and really don't need welfare objects. I think thats a really good idea to drug test people that sign up for welfare.
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10-04-12 02:36 PM
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Well to me yes they should be drug-tested before going on welfare, and have radon drug test every few months for those already on it. The only reason I say so is I have to take a drug test every time I get a new job thus others should have to be tested to collect my taxes.
Well to me yes they should be drug-tested before going on welfare, and have radon drug test every few months for those already on it. The only reason I say so is I have to take a drug test every time I get a new job thus others should have to be tested to collect my taxes.
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I feel it should be legal to perform a drug test on a welfare recipient if there is suspicion of drug use. Basically, it shouldn't be something that everyone has to do before they receive it and then have systematic random sampling... doing this just wastes much of the money going into providing these benefits... but a few tests here and there wouldn't be THAT costly.

This is actually how a lot of employers work, to be honest. I've worked for about 4 different employers who have said that you're required to submit to a drug test as a condition to employment. I've never once been drug tested by any of them. The only time I've been drug tested in my life was when I was going to be part of a training class for Blue Cross/Blue Shield. They said I needed to pass a drug test to qualify and then I'd be hired from the class if I did well. Unfortunately, the class was canceled right after I passed :/

Anyway, my point is that even though employers SAY you have to... it's very rare you actually do. Employers tend to only administer drug tests when they suspect you're actually doing drugs. It's too costly to routinely check everyone. Either they're pretty sure you're using... or they just wanna get rid of you and are hoping you are. If welfare reserved the right to drug test if they thought you were abusing your benefits for drugs, it might be an improvement in the system.

Granted this should only apply to cash aid. Food stamps can't buy drugs so those benefits shouldn't be contingent on this sorta thing. As someone earlier pointed out in this thread, some people on welfare have children. You don't want to victimize the children because of the mistakes of parents. At least if they can still buy food for their kids, there's a chance. Though honestly, if you find the parents are drug addicts, Child Protection Services should really be taking those kids away and that'd nip that problem in the bud.
I feel it should be legal to perform a drug test on a welfare recipient if there is suspicion of drug use. Basically, it shouldn't be something that everyone has to do before they receive it and then have systematic random sampling... doing this just wastes much of the money going into providing these benefits... but a few tests here and there wouldn't be THAT costly.

This is actually how a lot of employers work, to be honest. I've worked for about 4 different employers who have said that you're required to submit to a drug test as a condition to employment. I've never once been drug tested by any of them. The only time I've been drug tested in my life was when I was going to be part of a training class for Blue Cross/Blue Shield. They said I needed to pass a drug test to qualify and then I'd be hired from the class if I did well. Unfortunately, the class was canceled right after I passed :/

Anyway, my point is that even though employers SAY you have to... it's very rare you actually do. Employers tend to only administer drug tests when they suspect you're actually doing drugs. It's too costly to routinely check everyone. Either they're pretty sure you're using... or they just wanna get rid of you and are hoping you are. If welfare reserved the right to drug test if they thought you were abusing your benefits for drugs, it might be an improvement in the system.

Granted this should only apply to cash aid. Food stamps can't buy drugs so those benefits shouldn't be contingent on this sorta thing. As someone earlier pointed out in this thread, some people on welfare have children. You don't want to victimize the children because of the mistakes of parents. At least if they can still buy food for their kids, there's a chance. Though honestly, if you find the parents are drug addicts, Child Protection Services should really be taking those kids away and that'd nip that problem in the bud.
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Yes.  Drug test should be required for every government aid program.  And jobs for that matter.
Yes.  Drug test should be required for every government aid program.  And jobs for that matter.
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Yes i strongle support that it should be a drug test to see if you need welfare. Because for the most part if you are on drugs you can't think right and just get stuff for the fun of it.
Yes i strongle support that it should be a drug test to see if you need welfare. Because for the most part if you are on drugs you can't think right and just get stuff for the fun of it.
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I feel that is is justifiable to preform a drug test in order to receive the benefits of welfare; we shouldn't be paying more towards a system that is enabling substance abuse at all, nevermind to just make the poor poorer by allowing them to continue to waste money on addictions.   It will create at least a few more jobs here and there so that is also appealing
I feel that is is justifiable to preform a drug test in order to receive the benefits of welfare; we shouldn't be paying more towards a system that is enabling substance abuse at all, nevermind to just make the poor poorer by allowing them to continue to waste money on addictions.   It will create at least a few more jobs here and there so that is also appealing
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10-05-12 12:54 PM
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I'm going to ask a question to those people who say yes that drug testing should be required: How do we go about to pay for the drug tests? Drug tests don't come cheap (one statistic I found was that it costs the state of Florida; who had a drug test policy before being delcared unconstitutional; more money to finance the drug tests then it was to give them the unempolyment benefits without the drug test). Should the state give a reinbursement to those who pass the drug tests? What about the cost of rehab (I'm to assume that the people who are applying for benefits don't have the money for rehab)?
I'm going to ask a question to those people who say yes that drug testing should be required: How do we go about to pay for the drug tests? Drug tests don't come cheap (one statistic I found was that it costs the state of Florida; who had a drug test policy before being delcared unconstitutional; more money to finance the drug tests then it was to give them the unempolyment benefits without the drug test). Should the state give a reinbursement to those who pass the drug tests? What about the cost of rehab (I'm to assume that the people who are applying for benefits don't have the money for rehab)?
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10-06-12 01:07 AM
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Oldschool41 :

There are those who argue that any drug testing is unconstitutional, as it would violate the fourth amendment since there is no probable cause. The reason private employers can get away with drug testing is that they aren't bound by the constitution the way the government is. Of course, goverment employers can drug test as well. I took a look at an application for the FBI and you have to consent to being drug tested. So I'm not sure if there's a law that allows employers to drug test or if it's just a poor argument.

As for your question posed to those supporting drug testing welfare recipients, the only answer is from the taxpayers. It's the only way we can pay for it. And it's the reason I'm against the drug testing in the first place.
Oldschool41 :

There are those who argue that any drug testing is unconstitutional, as it would violate the fourth amendment since there is no probable cause. The reason private employers can get away with drug testing is that they aren't bound by the constitution the way the government is. Of course, goverment employers can drug test as well. I took a look at an application for the FBI and you have to consent to being drug tested. So I'm not sure if there's a law that allows employers to drug test or if it's just a poor argument.

As for your question posed to those supporting drug testing welfare recipients, the only answer is from the taxpayers. It's the only way we can pay for it. And it's the reason I'm against the drug testing in the first place.
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10-06-12 02:29 AM
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Oldschool41 : This is exactly why I said not all people should be drug tested. It's too costly. It should only be asked of those who are under suspicion of use.
Oldschool41 : This is exactly why I said not all people should be drug tested. It's too costly. It should only be asked of those who are under suspicion of use.
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10-06-12 09:42 PM
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Just a question that came to mind, what would a drug test have anything to do with whether or not you qualify for food stamps? Can anyone enlighten me on this?
Just a question that came to mind, what would a drug test have anything to do with whether or not you qualify for food stamps? Can anyone enlighten me on this?
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