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Did God make aliens?

 

08-24-12 07:26 AM
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Are we alone in the universe?  And if we are, why did God go and create all the massive space of the universe and leave it empty?

Thanks!
Are we alone in the universe?  And if we are, why did God go and create all the massive space of the universe and leave it empty?

Thanks!
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08-24-12 08:48 PM
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Good question. I don't know the answer.

But seriously, the Bible doesn't make any mention about aliens, so this is all up in the air.

However, I wouldn't say that it is a convincing argument that there HAS to be aliens just because there is such a massive space in the universe (and expanding I might add). Remember, God creates to bring glory to His name and to fulfill His will.
Good question. I don't know the answer.

But seriously, the Bible doesn't make any mention about aliens, so this is all up in the air.

However, I wouldn't say that it is a convincing argument that there HAS to be aliens just because there is such a massive space in the universe (and expanding I might add). Remember, God creates to bring glory to His name and to fulfill His will.
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08-26-12 09:51 AM
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warmaker : The universe isn't empty. It contains the universe.

I don't believe there are any aliens, at least not in the sense Hollywood has portrayed.
warmaker : The universe isn't empty. It contains the universe.

I don't believe there are any aliens, at least not in the sense Hollywood has portrayed.
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08-31-12 08:52 AM
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Well in the Bible it says that Eve is the mother of all living things so that pretty much rules out all aliens. . .
Well in the Bible it says that Eve is the mother of all living things so that pretty much rules out all aliens. . .
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God made everything, so if aliens are real theres no thought that he didn't make them.
God made everything, so if aliens are real theres no thought that he didn't make them.
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warmaker : I guess its only a question God can answer

warmaker : I guess its only a question God can answer
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I guess it depends on what you mean by "aliens". If you go by the hollywood version of what aliens are then no the bible doesn't mention anything about creatures from another planet. However the definition of "alien" used this way simply means a life form that doesn't originate on earth or extraterrestrial beings. I would like to think that the bible does mention extraterrestrial beings or at least implies that they exist. For instance, where does God originate from? Obviously no one knows, but one thing is for certain ...he didn't originate on earth seeing as he created it. I'm fairly certain angels aren't described as originating on earth either therefor they are extraterrestrial.

I don't believe in aliens, or that they have visited earth to be more specific. I will leave that belief to crazy people and religious people.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "aliens". If you go by the hollywood version of what aliens are then no the bible doesn't mention anything about creatures from another planet. However the definition of "alien" used this way simply means a life form that doesn't originate on earth or extraterrestrial beings. I would like to think that the bible does mention extraterrestrial beings or at least implies that they exist. For instance, where does God originate from? Obviously no one knows, but one thing is for certain ...he didn't originate on earth seeing as he created it. I'm fairly certain angels aren't described as originating on earth either therefor they are extraterrestrial.

I don't believe in aliens, or that they have visited earth to be more specific. I will leave that belief to crazy people and religious people.
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play4fun: However, I wouldn't say that it is a convincing argument that there HAS to be aliens just because there is such a massive space in the universe (and expanding I might add). Remember, God creates to bring glory to His name and to fulfill His will.

I agree with this statement completely, (with the exception of the expanding part, to which I believe in the not commonly accepted theory that the speed of light has been slowing down since the creation of the universe).

Why would it matter if the worlds framed didn't have life on them? All was created for His glory, to testify of His greatness to man, who He longs to know Him.

That being said, secondly, this is only a theory, but I do believe that there were beings that, in times past came to earth. Accepting the Bible as truth, here is the account in Genesis.

Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." - Genesis 6: 1-7

Were these men born after Adam who took wives? That wouldn't make sense, as it would not have been an error. Men marry women all the time over the earth, there is no fault in this. Man was already commanded to multiply on the earth.

Also, these 'Sons of God' gave birth to 'mighty men.' If this was just an expression for men born after Adam, then why wasn't every man born a mighty man of renown title.

This is what I believe, and I am not the only one who believes this, that these were fallen angels who sought to corrupt bloodline of the Messiah, as foretold in Genesis 3: 15-16.

The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life; And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the
head, And you shall bruise him on the heel

This was not their last time doing this. After the flood, we hear of the Nephilim again. Goliath was one of them.

1 Samuel 17 

Then a champion came out from the armies of the Philistines named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.

(A cubit is 18 inches and a span is 9 inches. So he was 9' 9.)

He stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel and said to them, "Why do you come out to draw up in battle array? Am I not the Philistine and you servants of Saul? Choose a man for yourselves and let him come down to me. "If he is able to fight with me and kill me, then we will become your servants; but if I prevail against him and kill him, then you shall become our servants and serve us. Again the Philistine said, "I defy the ranks of Israel this day; give me a man that we may fight together."

(So David met him on the battlefield.)

The Philistine also said to David, "Come to me, and I will give your flesh to the birds of the sky and the beasts of the field." Then David said to the Philistine, "You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have taunted. This day the LORD will deliver you up into my hands, and I will strike you down and remove your head from you. And I will give the dead bodies of the army of the Philistines this day to the birds of the sky and the wild beasts of the earth, that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel, and that all this assembly may know that the LORD does not deliver by sword or by spear; for the battle is the LORD'S and He will give you into our hands." And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground. Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him, and cut off his head with it. When the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, they fled. Then David took the Philistine's head and brought it to
Jerusalem, but he put his weapons in his tent. 

That being that Goliath was the offspring of the fallen angel, that is, the offspring of the same kind Satan was, his head was taken to Jerusalem. 

Jesus was crucified at Jerusalem, outside the gates of it, at Golgotha, translated as the 'hill of a skull.' This would indeed be fulfilling the prophecy, with two allegorical statements. 

Of course, Christ bruised the head (authority) of Satan upon the earth, taking the sins of men upon Himself, undoing Satan's dominion over them. The heel of the Messiah was bruised, meaning He suffered when taking authority away from Satan. But also, I believe, on this same hill was buried the head of Goliath, Nephilim. So also, in a physical way, Christ was suffering at the same place where the head of the giant was, and this too is also an allegory, the giant being those who have oppressed His people.

I believe the Bible's account when it says some of the fallen angels reproduced with the daughters of men. I believe they presented themselves in such a way as to welcome themselves to be worshiped as gods. I don't believe in every case of ancient history this was the case of demonic intervention, but I do believe in some cases it was. I believe that there were mighty men, who may have been called demi-gods in some ancient cultures, and fallen angels that represented themselves as gods, all to deceive men away from the truth.

And I will end on this note, all that being said, it is all theory, and is not of great importance to do with salvation, as it is all conjecture. We can take lessons from it, but what is important is Christ, his suffering, death, and resurrection and having true faith. 








 
play4fun: However, I wouldn't say that it is a convincing argument that there HAS to be aliens just because there is such a massive space in the universe (and expanding I might add). Remember, God creates to bring glory to His name and to fulfill His will.

I agree with this statement completely, (with the exception of the expanding part, to which I believe in the not commonly accepted theory that the speed of light has been slowing down since the creation of the universe).

Why would it matter if the worlds framed didn't have life on them? All was created for His glory, to testify of His greatness to man, who He longs to know Him.

That being said, secondly, this is only a theory, but I do believe that there were beings that, in times past came to earth. Accepting the Bible as truth, here is the account in Genesis.

Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." - Genesis 6: 1-7

Were these men born after Adam who took wives? That wouldn't make sense, as it would not have been an error. Men marry women all the time over the earth, there is no fault in this. Man was already commanded to multiply on the earth.

Also, these 'Sons of God' gave birth to 'mighty men.' If this was just an expression for men born after Adam, then why wasn't every man born a mighty man of renown title.

This is what I believe, and I am not the only one who believes this, that these were fallen angels who sought to corrupt bloodline of the Messiah, as foretold in Genesis 3: 15-16.

The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life; And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the
head, And you shall bruise him on the heel

This was not their last time doing this. After the flood, we hear of the Nephilim again. Goliath was one of them.

1 Samuel 17 

Then a champion came out from the armies of the Philistines named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.

(A cubit is 18 inches and a span is 9 inches. So he was 9' 9.)

He stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel and said to them, "Why do you come out to draw up in battle array? Am I not the Philistine and you servants of Saul? Choose a man for yourselves and let him come down to me. "If he is able to fight with me and kill me, then we will become your servants; but if I prevail against him and kill him, then you shall become our servants and serve us. Again the Philistine said, "I defy the ranks of Israel this day; give me a man that we may fight together."

(So David met him on the battlefield.)

The Philistine also said to David, "Come to me, and I will give your flesh to the birds of the sky and the beasts of the field." Then David said to the Philistine, "You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have taunted. This day the LORD will deliver you up into my hands, and I will strike you down and remove your head from you. And I will give the dead bodies of the army of the Philistines this day to the birds of the sky and the wild beasts of the earth, that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel, and that all this assembly may know that the LORD does not deliver by sword or by spear; for the battle is the LORD'S and He will give you into our hands." And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground. Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him, and cut off his head with it. When the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, they fled. Then David took the Philistine's head and brought it to
Jerusalem, but he put his weapons in his tent. 

That being that Goliath was the offspring of the fallen angel, that is, the offspring of the same kind Satan was, his head was taken to Jerusalem. 

Jesus was crucified at Jerusalem, outside the gates of it, at Golgotha, translated as the 'hill of a skull.' This would indeed be fulfilling the prophecy, with two allegorical statements. 

Of course, Christ bruised the head (authority) of Satan upon the earth, taking the sins of men upon Himself, undoing Satan's dominion over them. The heel of the Messiah was bruised, meaning He suffered when taking authority away from Satan. But also, I believe, on this same hill was buried the head of Goliath, Nephilim. So also, in a physical way, Christ was suffering at the same place where the head of the giant was, and this too is also an allegory, the giant being those who have oppressed His people.

I believe the Bible's account when it says some of the fallen angels reproduced with the daughters of men. I believe they presented themselves in such a way as to welcome themselves to be worshiped as gods. I don't believe in every case of ancient history this was the case of demonic intervention, but I do believe in some cases it was. I believe that there were mighty men, who may have been called demi-gods in some ancient cultures, and fallen angels that represented themselves as gods, all to deceive men away from the truth.

And I will end on this note, all that being said, it is all theory, and is not of great importance to do with salvation, as it is all conjecture. We can take lessons from it, but what is important is Christ, his suffering, death, and resurrection and having true faith. 








 
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The only evidence of the existence of "aliens" in the bible that I know of would be in Job 1:6-7:

"6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up an down in it." 

Here's an excerpt from an article explaining these verses ([url]http://www.amazingfacts.org/news-and-features/inside-report/id/582/aliens-angels-or-adopted-who-are-the-sons-of-god.aspx)/url]

"In attendance at this meeting are sons of God, as well as Satan himself. Satan says that he has come from the Earth. The sons of God were there representing their un-fallen worlds in God’s universe. Satan was there to represent the Earth.
Why would Satan be representing our world? Originally, Adam had dominion over the Earth. He was created by God to subdue and manage it. God said to Adam and Eve, “Have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth on the earth” (Genesis 1:28).

While Adam was in obedience to God, he enjoyed dominion over the world. But once Adam sinned and obeyed Satan, that dominion was forfeited to the enemy. “To whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16 NKJV).

Even Jesus referred to Satan as “the prince of this world” (John 12:31).

In the Gospel of Luke, the genealogy of Jesus is traced all the way back to Adam. Notice what Luke says about this lineage: “the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God” (Luke 3:38, emphasis added).
The difference between Seth and Adam is the bellybutton. Adam was created by the hand of God; Seth was born of Eve. Adam was the son of God, created to have dominion over the Earth. Thus one definition for sons of God is those beings God Himself created to have dominion over the worlds He made. These beings were not born but were created directly by God.
Job 38:7 tells us that when our world was created, “the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy.” The “morning stars” are angels, whereas “the sons of God” are the leaders of other worlds. (See Revelation 1:20.)
"

I've heard this theory that the reason we haven't been able to "make contact" with God's other sons and their worlds is that since we are corrupted/contaminated with sin, we are in a certain "quarantine" to keep from infecting the unfallen worlds.  

But I'm going to be honest- I'm not sure if aliens exist or not and I don't think we'll ever know. It's probably not outright, straightforward "aliens exist" in the bible because it's not important to our salvation.

The possibility of microbial extraterrestrials is probably high, though.

God made the universe and the things that are in it. 
The only evidence of the existence of "aliens" in the bible that I know of would be in Job 1:6-7:

"6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up an down in it." 

Here's an excerpt from an article explaining these verses ([url]http://www.amazingfacts.org/news-and-features/inside-report/id/582/aliens-angels-or-adopted-who-are-the-sons-of-god.aspx)/url]

"In attendance at this meeting are sons of God, as well as Satan himself. Satan says that he has come from the Earth. The sons of God were there representing their un-fallen worlds in God’s universe. Satan was there to represent the Earth.
Why would Satan be representing our world? Originally, Adam had dominion over the Earth. He was created by God to subdue and manage it. God said to Adam and Eve, “Have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth on the earth” (Genesis 1:28).

While Adam was in obedience to God, he enjoyed dominion over the world. But once Adam sinned and obeyed Satan, that dominion was forfeited to the enemy. “To whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16 NKJV).

Even Jesus referred to Satan as “the prince of this world” (John 12:31).

In the Gospel of Luke, the genealogy of Jesus is traced all the way back to Adam. Notice what Luke says about this lineage: “the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God” (Luke 3:38, emphasis added).
The difference between Seth and Adam is the bellybutton. Adam was created by the hand of God; Seth was born of Eve. Adam was the son of God, created to have dominion over the Earth. Thus one definition for sons of God is those beings God Himself created to have dominion over the worlds He made. These beings were not born but were created directly by God.
Job 38:7 tells us that when our world was created, “the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy.” The “morning stars” are angels, whereas “the sons of God” are the leaders of other worlds. (See Revelation 1:20.)
"

I've heard this theory that the reason we haven't been able to "make contact" with God's other sons and their worlds is that since we are corrupted/contaminated with sin, we are in a certain "quarantine" to keep from infecting the unfallen worlds.  

But I'm going to be honest- I'm not sure if aliens exist or not and I don't think we'll ever know. It's probably not outright, straightforward "aliens exist" in the bible because it's not important to our salvation.

The possibility of microbial extraterrestrials is probably high, though.

God made the universe and the things that are in it. 
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warmaker :

First of all, all that empty space in space is actually fine-tuned so that we can have life in our corner of the galaxy. If you altered one constant thousands of light-years away, we're dead. There isn't really any place that they could live, since it's very unlikely other planets have what is required to sustain life.

Secondly, the Bible says nothing about aliens. That doesn't mean there aren't any, it just means that God didn't find it important to tell us. If you think about it, the Bible is the story of Christ from the first second of man's human history to the fulfillment of His promise. Aliens don't really have a place in that picture. Maybe they exist, maybe they don't, but whether they do or not doesn't really affect the salvation story for Earth. Then you could speculate- didn't those aliens sin? How would we know? We've never seen them, assuming they exist, so maybe they're still in the pre-Fall state. That'd make a great sci-fi story, but it's still just speculation.

Thirdly, in response to unknown0s, Job 1:6-7... the sons of God are not aliens and nowhere does it say that they are aliens representing other worlds. It is most likely they are just angels reporting what they have done. Then you could speculate why is Satan in the congregation of the aliens, but let's not go there. It's not important to this topic. Also, in response to jcw2685, the "sons of God" were men who believed and followed God's will. Remember that sometimes the Bible draws a sharp contrast between Christians and unsaved people. The Nephilim, arguably, aren't from other worlds but were a race that does not exist anymore. I personally believe that Adam and Eve were their own "master" race that no longer exists, and that the Nephilim might be an extinct race with high physical capacity. Goliath was not an alien. He was a Philistine. Nowhere does it say that Goliath was a Nephilim. The Bible clearly says he is a Philistine.

Lastly, even though life as we know it is very unlikely, micro-organisms might exist outside of space. However, that's a far cry from us humans, who are made in God's image.
warmaker :

First of all, all that empty space in space is actually fine-tuned so that we can have life in our corner of the galaxy. If you altered one constant thousands of light-years away, we're dead. There isn't really any place that they could live, since it's very unlikely other planets have what is required to sustain life.

Secondly, the Bible says nothing about aliens. That doesn't mean there aren't any, it just means that God didn't find it important to tell us. If you think about it, the Bible is the story of Christ from the first second of man's human history to the fulfillment of His promise. Aliens don't really have a place in that picture. Maybe they exist, maybe they don't, but whether they do or not doesn't really affect the salvation story for Earth. Then you could speculate- didn't those aliens sin? How would we know? We've never seen them, assuming they exist, so maybe they're still in the pre-Fall state. That'd make a great sci-fi story, but it's still just speculation.

Thirdly, in response to unknown0s, Job 1:6-7... the sons of God are not aliens and nowhere does it say that they are aliens representing other worlds. It is most likely they are just angels reporting what they have done. Then you could speculate why is Satan in the congregation of the aliens, but let's not go there. It's not important to this topic. Also, in response to jcw2685, the "sons of God" were men who believed and followed God's will. Remember that sometimes the Bible draws a sharp contrast between Christians and unsaved people. The Nephilim, arguably, aren't from other worlds but were a race that does not exist anymore. I personally believe that Adam and Eve were their own "master" race that no longer exists, and that the Nephilim might be an extinct race with high physical capacity. Goliath was not an alien. He was a Philistine. Nowhere does it say that Goliath was a Nephilim. The Bible clearly says he is a Philistine.

Lastly, even though life as we know it is very unlikely, micro-organisms might exist outside of space. However, that's a far cry from us humans, who are made in God's image.
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No there is no such thing as aliens! God wouldn't make creatures that have all sorts of powers and are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ugly and all that stuff!!!!
No there is no such thing as aliens! God wouldn't make creatures that have all sorts of powers and are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ugly and all that stuff!!!!
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Well In my opinion, Yes. He made aliens for a reason, He made mermaids for a reason. Everything has a reason!
Well In my opinion, Yes. He made aliens for a reason, He made mermaids for a reason. Everything has a reason!
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smotpoker86 : Bible says that God doesn't have a beginning, He always was, and always will be.
smotpoker86 : Bible says that God doesn't have a beginning, He always was, and always will be.
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skippercapt : Please tell me your joking, I God Created humans, a race the kills and deprives its own kind, then what makes you think that in the massive span of the universe that no other intelligent life would be out there. 
skippercapt : Please tell me your joking, I God Created humans, a race the kills and deprives its own kind, then what makes you think that in the massive span of the universe that no other intelligent life would be out there. 
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Cjjjj : I guess your right.

John 3:16
       For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Cjjjj : I guess your right.

John 3:16
       For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
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Well, even if God did create aliens, he sent his only begotten son, Jesus Christ, down to earth to save mankind. I don't believe aliens exist and even if they did they most likely wouldn't harm us. Either way this should never affect us in any way.
Well, even if God did create aliens, he sent his only begotten son, Jesus Christ, down to earth to save mankind. I don't believe aliens exist and even if they did they most likely wouldn't harm us. Either way this should never affect us in any way.
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I do not know. As an agnostic, I do not believe in the Christian God. But, because I do believe somebody out there is controlling the ropes, I can still answer this question. I say no. They are supposed to be so far ahead of us, I think they would have contacted us by now.
I do not know. As an agnostic, I do not believe in the Christian God. But, because I do believe somebody out there is controlling the ropes, I can still answer this question. I say no. They are supposed to be so far ahead of us, I think they would have contacted us by now.
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They could exist and they may not. We wont find out for many years. And if they are real I am sure they wouldn't be called aliens. They would probably be a called something else. 
They could exist and they may not. We wont find out for many years. And if they are real I am sure they wouldn't be called aliens. They would probably be a called something else. 
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Cjjjj : it is true we are pretty messed up as a race but I believe we wasn't always like this ... some of us still try not to be after all 

is there life out there in the universe well given the diversity and adaptive nature of life almost certainly there is ... 
Did GOD create it if it exist well of course he wrote the rules and started the whole party after all ...
are there aliens as advanced as us well it is very possible given that chimps and dolphins come close at times
would they contact us if they new about us well I Believe in UFO's so take a look and make your own mind up I guess mind you if I seen us from their prospective I would avoid most of us 
Cjjjj : it is true we are pretty messed up as a race but I believe we wasn't always like this ... some of us still try not to be after all 

is there life out there in the universe well given the diversity and adaptive nature of life almost certainly there is ... 
Did GOD create it if it exist well of course he wrote the rules and started the whole party after all ...
are there aliens as advanced as us well it is very possible given that chimps and dolphins come close at times
would they contact us if they new about us well I Believe in UFO's so take a look and make your own mind up I guess mind you if I seen us from their prospective I would avoid most of us 
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(edited by RetroSteve on 01-23-13 02:32 AM)    

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Disregard me, I'm a douchebag.
Disregard me, I'm a douchebag.
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(edited by KG on 01-24-13 08:57 AM)    

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