cob
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LastManStanding :
Wrong.  You're arguing circular logic.  The point of is that it's GOD that knows, not some random person.  God, which can transcend time and space and encompasses all things at once, is the choice you make as much as it's the choice you don't make as much as it's you and as much as it's everything you can conceive.

Don't try beating faith, you'll have much more luck applying it to the reality of what's in front of you.  The ideas came from somewhere

Rope
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LastManStanding
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cob : yes it's true. All idea's come from somewhere. But what ideas are from a person who knows what there talking about or those from a crazy person is the difference. What's in the bible may be one, it may also be the other. I might be right with what I think. I could also be completely wrong and go to the place down under for all eternity for what I'm saying right now.
 either one is fine with me. If I'm wrong, when I go I'll admit it and take what comes to me because I was destined to believe this, according to earlier replies. At least, that's what I'm taking from it.
personally, I lost my faith a long time ago. Also, what is faith, but an idea of reality?

---

(last edited by LastManStanding on 02-10-12 11:45 PM)

Caterpie

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tRIUNE
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LastManStanding : You're not destined to not be saved just because you choose to not believe that you will be saved, God knows if you will or won't choose to come to him. If he knows that you will, then you will.

Hero of Hyrule

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LastManStanding
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tRIUNE : Then he should also know that I've got to stop here because if I know one person it's going to be me, and by knowing me, I know I'll just keep saying the same thing over and over untill i die of old age. so i done. i'm not leaving out of frustration or anything like that, i'm just stopping myself from continuing and make an idiot out of myself.

Caterpie

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smotpoker86
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tRIUNE :   If God knows who will be saved and go to heaven, than he also knows who won't make it to heaven. So if he is fulfilling peoples destiny to go to heaven than he is doing the same for people going to hell.  Therefore God is condemning people to Hell before they can choose how to live their lives.

Or on the other hand we could have complete free will and God doesn't have a plan of where are lives are headed. In other  words he doesn't know who will go to heaven and hell until our lives are complete.

Geldman
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tRIUNE
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smotpoker86 : If God wanted people to go to hell then he wouldn't have made the way for our salvation on the cross, so that whoever believes in that payment for our sins through Christ can freely be saved.

But you can't say that God is omniscient without him already knowing who will have that faith and who won't.

Hero of Hyrule

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smotpoker86
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tRIUNE : That is probably why I have a hard time getting my mind wrapped around this idea of a predestined free will ...because I don't view him as being omniscient.

Geldman
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cob
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Rope
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play4fun
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Yeah, answering this question really depends/show whether one is a Calvinist or an Arminian. Either way, both believe that Christians are saved through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. The difference is this:

When someone becomes a Christian-

-Calvinists say "God saved me on this day"
while
-Arminians say "I gave my life to Christ on this day"

Muk
Congrats to all the new staff and local mods! I look forward to work with all of you!
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cob
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play4fun :
I did not know about that difference; it seems like an important piece of the puzzle!  Thank you for that tid bit!

Rope
Most Metal Man Alive
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