thenumberone
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Sephitard: they can make the bullets travell at greater velocity and with more deadly bullets.
Ak47's and uzis are cheap and simple,thus common.in america criminals generaly go for the more advanced american weaponary.

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Sephitard9001
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thenumberone : Funny how you try to tell me what criminals in my own country use. But I digress. Criminals however, do NOT go for extremely valuable advanced weapons. They're criminals for a reason. They want cheap, reliable weapons that can not be traced, and there's no assault rifle more reliable than an AK-47. American-made military rifles are generally not available on the black market, especially to broke street thugs.

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(last edited by Sephitard9001 on 10-05-11 08:08 PM)

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thenumberone
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Sephitard9001 : a minute ago you were sayin you hardly see illegal guns so how do you know?
Amerian weapons are readily available on the black market.

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thenumberone : American weapons as in United States Military weapons might be in the black market, but do you honestly believe a gangster could afford it? If they could afford to buy an illegal weapon of that quality, and seeing as illegal weapons are more expensive than legal weapons, then they wouldn't need to be criminals.

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thenumberone
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Not all american guns are expensive,especialy seeing as theyre stolen and sold far cheaper.

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thenumberone : The mere fact that they must be stolen or smuggled from the military or military providers would make their prices outrageous. A lot of effort goes into the acquisition of military-grade technology. Those efforts must be compensated.

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(last edited by Sephitard9001 on 10-06-11 06:28 PM)

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A lot of the time,not really.you pay the high ups in the military and they just give the guns away,its not some super secret infiltration mission where they wear disguises and havd a shoot out before skidding off in an unmarked van.

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thenumberone : Umm, yeah. If someone who had a high enough rank to order the shipping of military equipment was delivering them to undisclosed locations or somewhere that is specifically a danger zone, they would be immediately caught. The black market obtains weaponry buy either purchasing them in countries where it's legal to do so, or they steal directly from the manufacturer using an insider. A general or an officer, no matter the nationality, could not supply criminals with military technology without anyone knowing. Where did you hear  that officers just hand weapons out?

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(last edited by Sephitard9001 on 10-07-11 08:06 AM)

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there are many cases of weapons "going missing".
all that is needed, is a war.then huge amounts of guns change locations constantly for the duration of the war, the guns are bounced around so much no one person could possibly track them, and they'd only really notice if they looked into it, a few here and there.
They cant prove what happened to them either.this is a good example:


http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=15184

there is a clear statement there:

Since 2004 there appears to have been no accountable and transparent US
audit trail for approximately 360,000 infantry weapons supplied to the
Iraqi security forces," said Brian Wood, Amnesty International's arms
control manager. "Coupled with the poorly managed US supply of small
arms

these guns are NOT efficiently managed.
how do you misplace 360,000 guns? you dont.
They'v been picked off by a host of people, from the guards and shipment overseers who are willing to notify interested partys and look away, to the clerks who just know its too easy not to.
I doubt many generals have done it but theres no doubt people in the army have.

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thenumberone : Yeah like I said, all those people that must've, "turned a blind eye" were working indirectly with the military, or they were insiders. It's impossible to stop stuff like this from happening. It's also not legal, so it's obviously not condoned by anyone important.

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(last edited by Sephitard9001 on 10-07-11 05:13 PM)

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I think it is irrelevant where the guns come from in a discussion about prohibiting guns. I am certain that criminals will use guns regardless of where they were made. I am also certain that both foreign and American made guns are used by American criminals. People who purchase illegal guns with the intent to shoot other people generally don't go into a gun store and buy a gun legally,  it will be more likely to leave a paper trail leading to them.

I know this has been said by a few people all ready (including me), but I will repeat it as I feel it is the strongest argument  in favor of keeping guns legal. Criminals will still get their hands on guns even if the common civilian can't do so legally. Sure they might have to resort to importing from other countries or stealing military issued weapons, either way they will get their hands on guns if they choose too.

I have no doubt that banning guns will lower the number of murders using guns,  over time there should be less guns available... in theory anyways.  However, that doesn't mean it will lower the overall murders significantly. Some one who has their mind set to go kill someone will still be able to do so. I do think the overall numbers will drop, but only very slightly and not enough to warrant the prohibition of guns. My reasoning for this is that it is easier to defend yourself when someone is attacking you from an arms reach , it should also be easier to spot some one walking up to you with a knife compared to someone shooting you from further away.

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I think this is an unfortunate story, and I do think it is relatively obvious this is going to fuel gun control. I don't think it would be good to put in more gun control, we would see more anger over it than prohibition. Plus Guns are much easier to come by than drugs. The right to bear arms was given for a very good reason, and I don't think taking it away because someone was an idiot is really going to help.

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thenumberone : Well look at it this way. If every one was allowed to carry a gun, people would be less likely to try to shoot each other because they know that just about every other person can shoot back at them.  

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thenumberone
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2112tomsawyer : by that logic america should have the lowest gun crime around(false,by a long way).

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>http://www.vizzed.com/boards/cuteeditor_files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);
thenumberone : Please explain why.

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2112tomsawyer : explain why what?why that wouldt have to be the case?guns are legal in the usa yet you have one of the highest gun crimes,obviously they are no deterent.

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>http://www.vizzed.com/boards/cuteeditor_files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);
thenumberone : You still haven't explained to me why you think what I said was wrong. What I said was that if every one is allowed to carry a gun in public, criminals would be less likely to shoot people because they know that every one else could shoot him/her back. If there is a problem with this, then please by all means point it out, and provide a valid reason as to why you think that way. Don't just  make stupid remarks without being able to back it up. So again, I ask you to please explain why you say my logic is wrong. If you can provide a valid reason, then I'd be glad to listen. If not then BE QUIET.

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2112tomsawyer : first,cut the attitude.
2nd,how can i make this clearer!you claim it discourages people,yet,in the usa where many people have guns there is more gun crime,ergo you are wrong.
Thats the last time im spelling it out.

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thenumberone : There is a correlation between amount of gun related crimes and how strict the laws of firearm ownership are. In areas where it is easy to acquire firearms, there is less gun related crime. In areas with very strict laws, there is generally more gun related crime.

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Sephitard9001 : But should be a given right there. The the more strict the law is, the more people are going to be guilty of something. This doesn't mean that tighter guns laws equal more homicides and the like.

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