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Vizzed Fantasy Football League 2011 - Discussion Thread

 

09-27-11 04:42 PM
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trouble982 :

It's pointless to argue it =/

You won't convince me he's an elite QB at all, and I won't convince you he's not an elite QB at all. Let's look at it this way, Look at the Colts this season. Look at how they are doing without him. He is everything to that team. The Patriots can win without Tom Brady, the Colts have major issues without Peyton Manning.

As for a fantasy topic...

Micheal Vick with a broken hand is still more valuable to me than Tom Brady will ever be =P Even if it's wrong.
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09-27-11 04:54 PM
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legacyme3 : That is a good point, the Colts are nothing without Peyton Manning.  They go from being one of the best teams to being one of the worst teams without him.
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09-27-11 04:56 PM
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Awesome, first win and it was against the "Jesus Freaks" Broke the undefeated record and the guys with Tom Brady. I feel special
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09-27-11 05:20 PM
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legacyme3 : Peyton Manning doesn't play defense....I could see the Colts being 1-2, possibly pulling out that Steelers game if he was playing, but that's it. 

pacman1755 : I couldn't get to a computer to change my inactive guys until it was too late to change them . Peyton Hillis had strep throat. That being said, even if I had replaced him, you still would have won. Wes Welker had a beast mode day XD.
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(edited by trouble982 on 09-27-11 05:32 PM)    

09-27-11 05:56 PM
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pacman1755 :   Too bad there is still one undefeated person *me*  Lets hope someone beats me.
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09-27-11 06:07 PM
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Davideo7 :

That's the entire basis of my Manning>Brady argument.

Manning is everything to the Colts.

The Patriots were able to win with Matt Cassel.

pacman1755 :

f*** yeah. That's getting it done.

I tied this week. Despite Vick getting a broken hand. That should say something about my team.
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09-27-11 06:17 PM
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legacyme3 : Their defense is what lost them those games though. It looked AWFUL. Peyton Manning doesn't play defense. 
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09-27-11 06:26 PM
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trouble982 : They haven't been scoring many points though either.  Last year they averaged like 30 points per a game, week 1 of this year they only scored 7 points.
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09-27-11 06:41 PM
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Davideo7 : Well, the 2008 Patriots Defense was a LOT better than the Colts defense this year. If they had the Pats defense from 2008, they would be in all of these games. But the Pats having a good defense doesn't mean that Tom Brady is any less elite.
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09-27-11 06:42 PM
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Davideo7 :

Yeah, exactly.

trouble982 :

He doesn't but neither does Tom Brady.

In the end, Peyton Manning is the one giving them the points they need to win.

Manning>Brady
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09-27-11 07:09 PM
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legacyme3 : If you want to talk about offense, let's get to stats. The patriots offense fell from 36.81 points a game to 25.63 points. That is more than 11 points a game that went away when Tom Brady did. 
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09-27-11 07:10 PM
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legacyme3 : Reports say that Vick's hand is in fact bruised, not broken, so your safe =)
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09-27-11 07:32 PM
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pacman1755 :

Yeah, haha, I just caught a break.

trouble982 :

In the grand scheme of things 11 points isn't that bad when you compare it to this.

Davideo7 said, "They haven't been scoring many points though either. Last year they averaged like 30 points per a game, week 1 of this year they only scored 7 points."

Yeah.
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09-27-11 07:41 PM
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legacyme3 :  That's only week 1. Not the entire season. At the end of the season if the Points per Game difference from last season is closer to 15 or 20, then you can start to say that. But that was only 1 week. In the first 3 games of 2008, the Patriots had games of 17, 19 and 13 points, an average of 16.3 points. Through 3 games for the Colts this season, they have averaged 7,19 and 20, and average of 15.3 points. It's not a terribly big difference. We won't really be able to compare the Colts this year to the 2008 Patriots until the end of the season. And that's if Peyton Manning doesn't come back. 
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(edited by trouble982 on 09-27-11 07:42 PM)    

09-27-11 07:45 PM
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trouble982 :

I don't get what's not to get about it though. The 2008 Patriots had an 11 point difference, and were still scoring more than enough to win 11 games.

11 points is less than 2 touchdowns. Are you telling me the difference between an elite QB and a below average QB is only 2 touchdowns or 11 points per game?

The fact remains that the Patriots did PERFECTLY FINE WITHOUT BRADY. Yes. They missed the playoffs. Boo hoo. That happens. You can't be in the playoffs every single year. Most years, 11-5 is enough to make the playoffs.
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09-27-11 07:51 PM
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legacyme3 : So just because the Patriots had a better defense in 2008 than the Colts have now, Brady isn't elite? That's the only reason they won so many games, The offense took a HUGE hit. 11 points is HUGE in the NFL. In a league that most games are decided by a touchdown or less, 11 points is make or break. And it was the difference between making the playoffs and missing them. 
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(edited by trouble982 on 09-27-11 07:53 PM)    

09-27-11 07:55 PM
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trouble982 :

Defense or no, Look at how many points Cassel still was able to put up. Despite being a below average QB, he was able to put up 25ish points a game with the Patriots. Because of their wide receivers. 25ish points is an awful amount.

You can't call Brady elite now without calling Cassel very good. And Cassel is NOT very good.

Cassel is below average, maybe average at best. Which would only make Brady good to very good in all due respect.
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09-27-11 08:05 PM
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legacyme3 : Matt Cassel had a very good season. May Quarterbacks have a fluke season where they do very well even if they aren't that good. Look at Kerry Collins. He played fantastic 1 year for the Titans, and then kind of dropped off and didn't do well for the colts in his first 2 games either. 
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09-27-11 08:10 PM
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trouble982 :

I don't think it was a fluke season though.

I think had he remained with the Patriots, he'd be just as effective as he had been. We'll never know of course, but he's far from dominant. Tom Brady is just a very good QB for a very good team. Not elite.
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09-27-11 08:23 PM
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legacyme3: No, he wouldn't have. Before the 2009 season they got rid of a lot of people and more or less had a "start over" season and got a lot of new guys. I don't believe Matt Cassel would have had a good season again. They would have gone 7-9 or 6-10 with Matt Cassel in 2009. They didn't have the defense they had in 2007/2008.
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