Totts : well music is expresion,and you cant ban that.
And the riotr are caused by a bunch of jobless people taking advantage of a weakness in the police to nick as much stuff as possible.
And its only happened in england.scotland,wales and n.ireland have not got involved.

I have never heard of "grime" music, and I don't like rap, but banning such music will never solve a situation only make it worse.

And just as warmaker said, it's like saying video games cause violence. Such music is an outlet for frustration, let them have it.

In the past, the musical style of rock and roll was demonized, and it was often blamed for corrupting the youth by the older generations. However, as time went on, and as the youth grew into the older generations, it was accepted into our culture, and it was no longer seen as an inherently bad influence.

Rap music is in a similar position in today's society. Just like rock and roll before it, rap glorifies generally unacceptable behavior, but the notion that it causes such things is an unfounded fear that those who listen to such music are unable to distinguish fantasy from reality.

The glorification of deviance is present within all cultures, regardless of location and time, and the truncation of freedom of expression will not offer any just resolutions to the problems that exist within these cultures.

The thing I don't like about rap is the agenda: "I'm better then you, bling bling look at me I'm rich and gangster and I can party 24/7 and rape people, commit crimes and get away with it". Not all rap is like that but a majority of it is.

A majority of rap I believe is to blame for a lot of the crime in America. 90% of cars that drive by have rap turned up so high I can hear it shaking the walls. And on that same not a majority of drive by shootings (probably all of them listen to rap while doing it). The term player and gangster are also a big part of how this society functions. If someone is gangster that means he is a tough guy who can get away with crime and if your a playa then your considered a pimp or ladies man who likes to have std sex with as many woman as possible.

And plus, what is up with this East Coast vs West Coast wars? Did I also mention that rap is inspiration for gangs (bloods and crips).

Out of every music genre, none of them have gangs, drive by shootings, wars with others who live on other side of country then them, don't throw up gang signs and promote a lifestyle of partying and crime to the extent that rap does. So you can bet that rap is special in terms of blame for violence in society. Much higher blame then any movie or video game because its repetitive and a majority of raps audience goes out and does what the music says.

Rap is very much like the political parties, most of it is just trash talking others when in reality they are all one in the same, they are all criminals. If the artists you are paying is indeed who he/she says he is (a criminal) that goes to show who you are in society, an asset to violence (not imaginary but real, but there are a lot of posers in rap).

There is a fine line between art/imagination and reality. If you think having sex and committing crimes in reality (not fantasy land) is an art then I think you took a wrong turn somewhere. Most of rap is talking about things in reality not in fantasy land that is the big key here.

Sure every thing has its fair share of nuts for an audience but rap would have to take the cake in terms of blamable violence in society.

I read through to arguments presented on both sides that I have found, and I cannot truly say which one is correct; however, I may be able to shine a different light on this with my own experience. Before I came here to Vizzed, I had taken several classes online that have made me cynical. On to the music. Throughout this year, I have been applying my cynicism to several songs that have reinforced my negative views of this world. In my case, the music was not the blame for my cynicism, but it has been a negative influence to me still. I put myself in a bad position but the music continues it. Does that mean the music I listen to should be banned? No, because it was not the original influence that put me in a bad spot. The same can be said for rap music. I do think it has a bad influence on our youth culture, but it should not be destroyed because of it.

I'm not into rap music, but I don't think it has anything to do with the riots in the UK. Most rap music doesn't give good imagery though...
You can't ban a certain type of music, I don't think

JigSaw : Maybe I am just biased because I don't listen to much rap and when I do it is usually more political rap and not about bling bling. I agree that people who do" drive by shootings, wars with others who live on other side of country then them,  throw up gang signs and promote a lifestyle of partying and crime to the extent that rap does." generally listen to rap.

You are implying that life is imitating art, but I think it is art imitating life. There are other genres of music with violent themes in them, and they don't cause people to commit crimes, so why does rap get special treatment.


"90% of cars that drive by have rap turned up so high I can hear it shaking the walls."
" a majority of raps audience goes out and does what the music says. "

If  45+% of the people around you are in gangs or criminals I think you should move.

Again, I agree that there are a lot of criminals who listen to rap, that doesn't mean rap is the cause.  There is a reason why gangs are more prominent in areas with high poverty rates, and it isn't because people in poverty like rap music.

to blame rap music is like blaming video games or movies as the cause of violence.

I think to try to blame any single thing is short-sighted. Blame the general upbringing of the people who actually committed the violent act. Media can't take the blame for bad parenting. Parents can't take the blame for a crappy economy or lack of education because of their own upbringing.

the situation is more complex than bad rap music or violent media.

smotpoker86 : I agree that rap is not the main cause for crime but poverty is also not the cause of crime and poverty is not the cause for gangs, its mentality that is what drives people to do the things that they do. Their are rich and poor people alike, all of them commit crimes because they can. Money is involved with crime a lot however that is just a sugarcoat.

Think of the human mind as a program involving variables such as music and money. If you program your mind into thinking a certain way based on those variables you will become who you want to be, either civilized or a nutcase If you run low on money to the point where you are broke your mind might tell you to rob a bank and kill anyone who tries to stop you based on any influences from the variables within your program (mind). If you were braindead and a vegetable and listened to rap and were poor chances of you committing a crime are slim to none because your mentality is too weak to operate in the state you want it to. So if anything should be responsible for crimes is mentality, not money or rap music (however those are big influences).

Elara : No, back in the 80's and 90's it was an outlet of frustration. After 2000 it grew to be more about money and sex. At least with the popular songs today. I don't listen to it, but there are songs back in the day that I did like. Tupac was a great example of expression in rap. As was B.I.G.

Cyro Xero : I agree, it did change for the worse. But there are still some that rap about hardship and such... at let's face it, songs about gold teeth and "hos" are not likely to spark violence of this scale.

JigSaw : Poverty is the leading cause for gangs, it is the same today as it has been through out  history. Now you are saying it is mentality that is the cause of gangs and criminality, which I agree with but I argue that is a very broad statement. I think everything people do is caused by their mentality. Now if you look at the leading cause for a gang / criminal mentality than it would be poverty. I am using http://people.howstuffworks.com/street-gang.htm for some of the imformation so you might aswell read it. Basically it says the number one cause of gangs is poverty followed by peer pressure, boredom (which I figure isn't too high a percentage of gangmembers, can't see many people going out and doing crimes because they are bored) , and despair.

"The National Center for Juvenile Justice used a combination of police department reports and self-reporting to compile the ­Juvenile Offenders and Victims: 2006 National Report. They estimated that 49 percent of gang members were Hispanic, 37 percent were black, 8 percent white, 5 percent Asian and 1 percent had another ethnicity."

I am not trying to make this about race, but it is factual. Hispanic and African Americans make up the majority of gangmembers because they are more likely to be in poverty. This is unfortunate but true. If rap was the cause for starting gangs there would be more than 8% of gangmembers being white people.

"New York City was the epicenter of gang activity in America in the 19th century. Poor sections of the city, such as the Five Points, provided a
fertile ground for gangs with strong ethnic identities, usually Irish."

"Gang activity in South Central Los Angeles has its roots in a variety of factors dating back to the 1950s and '60s, including post-World War II
economic decline leading to joblessness and poverty, racial segregation leading to the formation of black "street clubs" by young African American men who were excluded from organizations such as the Boy Scouts, and the waning of black nationalist organizations such as the Black Panther Party and the Black Power Movement." - Crips page on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crips

Here are two completely different time periods where poverty played a key role in creating gangs. Rap music wasn't around in the 50's and 60's when modern gangs were formed, and I do not believe Jazz and Blues has an impact in creating these gangs. There would be gangs through out the country and not in high poverty areas if Jazz was to blame, similar to how there would be gangs everywhere if Rap was to blame.

I do realize you changed your argument/statements from rap causes crime to mentality causes crime. And I agree mentality causes crime, I just think you are giving rap too much credit in influencing someones mentality. As others have pointed out in this thread other forms of art such as movies and video games shouldn't be blamed for violence, and music shouldn't be aswell. Maybe if you could explain why violent rap is more influential than other violent music I would believe you.

Well I don't know if u mean metal but it's not all bad look up snuff by slipknot and vermilion also by slipknot and about the rap I even I don't like rap it's not all bad ether

First how do you know poor people cannot have anything that is portrayed in rap music.
A situation can change instantly
Second lots of people don't listen to rap or grime music (I listen to rap but not grime).
I can only think of two successful British rappers
Third I thought the riots started because a man got shot by a police officer.
O.o

I think that banning the music would have the same effects as prohibition back in the 1920s. The music would just go underground and the messages would probably grow to be even worse than they are now. When people lose the right to do something, they protest. And the urge to do it goes up.

Music is just that; a sound, an artistic expression. Crime, however, is an action. People, especially Americans, have a tendency to place the blame on one suspect rather than a combination of factors. Although I am no expert on criminology, I took two courses my first semester and there are many theories on what causes someone to commit crime. However, generally, the consensus is that the no-doubter crimes - murder, rape, theft - are said to be known by any mentally-stable human being.

With that being said, it seems highly unlikely that the blame , let alone sole blame, be rested on music of any kind. Heck, many people claim that rap promotes sex, drugs, violence, etc. but does anyone really listen to the lyrics? Most of the pop-rap that I hear on the radio is forgotten by most people within a few months. No one really listens to the words, they just hear it.

Real motivation for crime comes from necessity. A single mother who can't make ends meet steals baby formula from a supermarket not because she's a mentally unstable criminal. No, she just wants to feed her daughter and stealing was the only way to feed her.

I was going somewhere with this but it's getting late. To sum it up, I think it's ridiculous to blame a genre of  music that - like it or not - has become the most popular genre, arguably. It's not like it's something obscure, many millions upon millions of people listen to Hip-Hop and only a small minority of those listeners are criminals.

geeogree :
smotpoker86 :

I think you two said it best.

This is a lot similar to the debate whether games can affect the way you act or have any contribution to criminal activity and I'm pretty sure the answers the same, yes and no. Normally music is just there to listen to and wont cause any harm no matter how full of imagery or glamorization of destruction there is.

 On the other hand, people with certain psychopathologies can take these songs to heart and start committing the crimes they talk about in the songs, I think the psychopathology might be paranoid schizophrenia but don't quote me on it theres others to that I just can't remember.

I love rap music, I'm not a violent person.

It may talk of violence and rebelling, but still, that's what they said about rock and roll.