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Homosexuals




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Homosexuals
- How does your church handle them?
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Posted on 11-01-11 09:04 PM kabenon007 is Offline     Post: 320 words - Spell checked - (ID: 489843) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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I am a devout Catholic, and I've actually read and talked a lot with priests and pastors about the nature of homosexual sin. The Catholic Church always always emphasizes, in relations to all sin, "love the sinner, hate the sin." Therefore, it is against the teachings of the Catholic Church to "hate gays" and be judgmental towards them. Anybody who does so is in fact committing a sin of pride themselves haha.

Also, a clarification about the sin of homosexuality itself. The Catholic Church does not condemn having homosexual thoughts as a sin. Our thoughts are our own, usually they pop up without provocation. This is why we cannot sin on thought, but only what we do with that thought. If I accidentally think of a naked woman, I am not committing a sin until I choose to keep my mind on said naked woman.

Therefore, the sin of homosexuality comes from acting on those thoughts. The Church condemns the actual act of one person of the same sex having sex with another of the same. That is the sin: the act, not the tendency or desire. In addition, this sin is actually the exact same sin as premarital sex. The two engaging in sexual relations are not married, therefore their physical UNION is premarital sex, considered a sin. So really, there isn't much difference between the two.

I went to the University of Iowa, and I know many homosexuals (I was a theatre major). I get along with most of them, and love them as best I can. I know that a lot of religious people don't treat homosexuals with the respect they deserve and that breaks my heart, both for the ones who do not receive the respect they deserve and also because it makes them predisposed to thinking that all religious people will treat them the same way. True Catholics are called to love, not to hate.

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Posted on 11-01-11 09:15 PM leetboi68 is Offline     Post: 132 words - Spell checked - (ID: 489853) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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Some Christians blindly believe everything the bible tells them. I am not one of them. Don't you realize that the bible was written by humans and therefore has error? I believe that the only way to find your true faith is with god, not a book.

So yes, perhaps the bible says that homosexuality is wrong, so wouldn't it make sense if the authors of the bible were biased against homosexuality? 

Imagine loving the person of your dreams, but being told by the church that you have to abandon that love in order to be a Christian. Does that seem very Christian to you? It says in the bible that god wants us to love one another; why don't you gay haters stop harassing gay people and mind your own damn problems? 

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Posted on 11-03-11 12:07 PM Hoochman is Offline     Post: 68 words - (ID: 490794) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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leetboi68 : For one thing, the Bible was written by men who were DIRECTED by God to write what they wrote. There is no room for bias or error with that as the case. And secondly, not liking homosexuality is not the same as hating the homosexual. I think it is unfair to automatically get angry with Christian's just because of the way they feel about homosexual behavior.

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Posted on 11-03-11 02:05 PM leetboi68 is Offline     Post: 30 words - Spell checked - (ID: 490834) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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Hoochman : Well every day at school, I see gay kids getting bullied, sometimes in extremely violent ways. Whatever the bible may say, I don't see how this is right. 

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Posted on 11-03-11 02:41 PM tRIUNE is Online     Post: 9 words - (ID: 490853) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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leetboi68 :
Are these bullies claiming to be Christians?

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Posted on 11-03-11 02:44 PM leetboi68 is Offline     Post: 21 words - Spell checked - (ID: 490857) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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tRIUNE : Most of the kids at my school are Christian, only a few are not. So yes, they are Christians. 
(last edited by leetboi68 on 11-03-11 02:44 PM)

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Posted on 11-03-11 02:48 PM tRIUNE is Online     Post: 40 words - (ID: 490860) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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leetboi68 :
Not really then (they're only claiming to be Christians; Christian means to be Christ-like, or in other words following Christ's example.

Do you think Christ was a bully, and would be doing this stuff to homosexuals (rhetorical question)?

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Posted on 11-03-11 02:57 PM leetboi68 is Offline     Post: 18 words - (ID: 490871) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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tRIUNE : Of course not, it just pisses me off that churches actually support this attitude against homosexuals. 

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Posted on 11-03-11 03:00 PM NotJon is Offline     Post: 60 words - Spell checked - (ID: 490874) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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I don't know to be honest. I don't recall it being brought up. It's been ages since I've been at church though. Although this wasn't asked, I believe that sexuality is very fluid. Heck, I believe that homosexuality has its function in nature, including human society. It's like having a backup mother and a way to keep population in check.

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Posted on 11-03-11 03:06 PM tRIUNE is Online     Post: 26 words - (ID: 490876) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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NotJon :
Could you elaborate on "It's like having a backup mother and a way to keep population in check."

I don't at all understand that.

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Posted on 11-03-11 03:16 PM play4fun is Online     Post: 62 words - Spell checked - (ID: 490883) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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leetboi68 : Except churches don't support that type of behavior against homosexuals. I am in agreement with tRIUNE and Hoochman. Just because they say that they are Christians doesn't mean that they are. Also, knowing that homosexuality is wrong never gave Christians the reason or the right to bully homosexuals. That is basically putting more wrong onto wrong.

kabenon007 : Well stated.

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Posted on 11-03-11 03:16 PM NotJon is Offline     Post: 209 words - Spell checked - (ID: 490885) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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Certainly. Let's say a mother dies. She leaves behind a mate and two children. One child is unable to support itself but the other is old enough to stand in as the mother and this individual is homosexual. The homosexual is able to stand in for the mother until the father gets a new mate or forever. Perhaps not able to do all the female duties, he is however able to act like a mother  would (warm, gentle, tender) with the baby in her absence. Also, I don't know if there's any proof for the other thing, but I always thought that having homosexuals in a community would act as a way to keep the population growth from rising too much which would help the rest of the ecosystem recover faster. Let's say there is far too many of one species and they're draining all of the nearby natural resources. Homosexuals - though able to reproduce - at least serve as possibly lowering the likelihood  of additional offspring.

I've probably butchered this a little so I'd say look further into it if you want a more accurate idea of what I'm trying to get across. Also, keep in mind that these are theories in need of much more research.

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Posted on 11-03-11 03:44 PM tRIUNE is Online     Post: 8 words - (ID: 490896) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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We're talking about human beings here, not animals.

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Posted on 11-03-11 04:04 PM kabenon007 is Offline     Post: 127 words - Spell checked - (ID: 490901) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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There are two misconceptions that are all too common when talking about homosexuality. The first is the "Christian" who believes that, just because the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, that it is ok then to treat a homosexual as less than a normal human being. That is the first horrible misconception in this.

The second is that everyone religious person who says they oppose homosexuality or think that it is wrong hates homosexuals themselves. Just because we do not approve of the practice does not mean we do not approve of the person. Everyone person is made in the image and likeness of God, therefore we must love them. To hate them is to hate something made in God's image, and that is an affront to him.

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Posted on 11-03-11 05:13 PM Annette is Offline     Post: 325 words - (ID: 490934) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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Alright, I'm going ask an honest question to Christians here, as a non-Christian myself.

I'm going to assume two things here. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. You believe homosexuality is a "sin" (wrong) because the Bible says so (Leviticus).
2. Because you apply this part of the Bible to your beliefs in this day and age, and believe it should govern what is acceptable and what is not for a person to do, you also believe the rest of that chapter should govern our morals, including:

21:16-23 - God can't stand the sight of handicapped people. (The blind, the lame, dwarfs, people with funny noses or blemishes, with damaged testicles, or broken hands or feet, crooked backs, or who have scurvy or scabs.)

12:5-1 - Menstruating women are unclean in the eyes of God.
15:19-30, 33 - Every surface she sits/lies on, all food she touches, and all people she touches during menstruation are also unclean.

21:7 - A Priest cannot marry a previously divorced women, because she would "defile" him.
4:22-28 - If a common person (not royalty) sins out of ignorance, they can atone for their sins by sacrificing a female goat.

1:8-9 - Animal sacrifices please God. Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, and burn it for a "sweet savor unto the Lord."

12:5 - If a woman gives birth to a baby boy, she is unclean in the eyes of God for 7 days, if it is a baby girl, she is unclean for 14 days.

19:28 - Tattoos are a sin.



OR, I am mistaken... Do you just pick and choose which parts you like best/feel like and only apply those ones to your daily life? If so, what makes the verse about homosexuality any less ridiculous or non-applicable as the ones above? (Unless you do actually believe them because they are in the Bible & "the word of God".)
(last edited by Annette on 11-03-11 05:23 PM)
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Posted on 11-03-11 06:33 PM Hoochman is Offline     Post: 78 words - (ID: 491015) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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leetboi68 : Bullying and hatred is wrong, and I am perfectly able to admit that some churches do it(which is wrong). So I think what needs to be made clear is what is actually hatred and what is just being preached as a sin. I don't think preaching about it being a sin is hateful unless its actually being hateful by saying what we see down south, "God hates fags" "Thank God for dead soldiers". Crap like that.

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Posted on 11-03-11 06:50 PM tRIUNE is Online     Post: 103 words - (ID: 491024) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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Annette : Honestly, you're taking scripture from the Old Testament and trying to use it against Christian; I say this because not all OT scripture is applicable for today (some is if you're walking with Christ).

In a friendly manner: some of the OT scriprures were just meant for that time some 6,000 to 2,000 years ago... a lot of the scriptures from the OT do have applications for a Christians daily life ( which is why we read the entire Bible), but some just do not apply today.

If you want to confirm or dispute / discuss this, just summon me here.

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Posted on 11-03-11 07:00 PM billythekidmonster is Offline     Post: 61 words - (ID: 491036) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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tRIUNE : Yes not to mention the fact that many of them also have a certain context that if taken out of (like any other thing) can sound wrong or bad. Many people take it out of context there fore making it not valuable to anything. A lot of the Bible has certain phrases when taken out of context sound bad.

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Posted on 11-03-11 08:28 PM Annette is Offline     Post: 23 words - (ID: 491115) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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tRIUNE : I understand that the Bible contains 'instructions' from 2,000+ years ago. What I am wondering is what distinguishes applicable from non-applicable?
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Posted on 11-04-11 06:32 AM kabenon007 is Offline     Post: 102 words - Spell checked - (ID: 491317) - Post Rating: 0 - Report Abuse | Link
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If we were to believe word for word everything in the Old Testament, God would be in favor of slavery, genocide, and incest, among many other things. I don't believe that homosexuality is a sin because Leviticus told me so. I believe it is a sin because it undermines God's true plan for sex and the sexual relationship, which is that sex is a renewal of a couple's marital vows, the vows they made when they got married to be faithful, fruitful, totally and completely. One cannot have a renewal of marital vows that have never been taken in the first place. (last edited by kabenon007 on 11-04-11 06:33 AM)

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