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Religion: is it for you?

 

12-19-10 07:43 PM
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I don't really believe in any religions. If I believed in any, it would be something I'd rather not say on here. I'm not a fan of religion at all.
I don't really believe in any religions. If I believed in any, it would be something I'd rather not say on here. I'm not a fan of religion at all.
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12-19-10 09:49 PM
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hl54322 : I highly doubt it that it is possible for someone to confidently discover the roots of humankind. For one, they would not know when to stop. No one really knows whether one body is "the first." Though I believe Adam and Eve exists, we don't know what they look like nor do we know their body structure. Knowledge of Adam and Eve existing may not help people believe in God either. Faith is not a head knowledge thing, it's a change in the heart.

bchawk88 : I know that feeling. It's hard to believe in something without support. However, there is support all around you. Your existence, the existence of the world, and the beauty and complexity of the world, creatures, and the elements should scream to you that there must be something or someone greater than you and me that would create and allow all of it to happen....forget about existence, the fact that you CAN study and understand the knowledge that you learn from the world and from your schooling, or the fact that as you grow, your brain is capable to mature, going from concrete operational thinking (solving concrete problems) to formal operational thinking (capable for abstract thought and hypothetical situations), should be more amazing and the more reason that there must be a complex creator. All of it is screaming at you, which is why the Bible says that no one has an excuse of not believing due to the evidence of creation. From theology, I can also understand why you would not be interested in faith. If you are interested, you can ask.

As a science major, I do know that this field does not prove anything. It supports a hypothesis to create a theory or a model till proven wrong. I have to be reminded of theories coming and going, changing or completely scraped. It is like how Albert Einstein proved Issac Newton's model of gravitation wrong because it contradicts his theory of relativity. The model is changed into a spacetime curving "sheet." So with both human error and our finite minds, science can err.

Religion is not about rules and way of life to follow (though most of them are). It is about man's way to God. It is a reality that not only change the way you think about life or the way you live your life, it also puts you with a reality. With all these religions, the questions becomes which one of them is right, or if all of them are wrong. To go back to your original title of your thread, religion is not a "is it right for you" type of thing. It's more of a "do I believe in God or not."
hl54322 : I highly doubt it that it is possible for someone to confidently discover the roots of humankind. For one, they would not know when to stop. No one really knows whether one body is "the first." Though I believe Adam and Eve exists, we don't know what they look like nor do we know their body structure. Knowledge of Adam and Eve existing may not help people believe in God either. Faith is not a head knowledge thing, it's a change in the heart.

bchawk88 : I know that feeling. It's hard to believe in something without support. However, there is support all around you. Your existence, the existence of the world, and the beauty and complexity of the world, creatures, and the elements should scream to you that there must be something or someone greater than you and me that would create and allow all of it to happen....forget about existence, the fact that you CAN study and understand the knowledge that you learn from the world and from your schooling, or the fact that as you grow, your brain is capable to mature, going from concrete operational thinking (solving concrete problems) to formal operational thinking (capable for abstract thought and hypothetical situations), should be more amazing and the more reason that there must be a complex creator. All of it is screaming at you, which is why the Bible says that no one has an excuse of not believing due to the evidence of creation. From theology, I can also understand why you would not be interested in faith. If you are interested, you can ask.

As a science major, I do know that this field does not prove anything. It supports a hypothesis to create a theory or a model till proven wrong. I have to be reminded of theories coming and going, changing or completely scraped. It is like how Albert Einstein proved Issac Newton's model of gravitation wrong because it contradicts his theory of relativity. The model is changed into a spacetime curving "sheet." So with both human error and our finite minds, science can err.

Religion is not about rules and way of life to follow (though most of them are). It is about man's way to God. It is a reality that not only change the way you think about life or the way you live your life, it also puts you with a reality. With all these religions, the questions becomes which one of them is right, or if all of them are wrong. To go back to your original title of your thread, religion is not a "is it right for you" type of thing. It's more of a "do I believe in God or not."
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12-19-10 10:34 PM
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play4fun : You know what? I really don't know what to say to that. Right now, I don't believe in God, that could change.
play4fun : You know what? I really don't know what to say to that. Right now, I don't believe in God, that could change.
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12-20-10 12:42 AM
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Mindset is everything. If you have a preconceived notion of there being a god, seeing the world as something that merits a creator is far easier. That is why there are few atheists or agnostics who feel a creator is the only way to explain how the universe came into being.

Mindset is everything. If you have a preconceived notion of there being a god, seeing the world as something that merits a creator is far easier. That is why there are few atheists or agnostics who feel a creator is the only way to explain how the universe came into being.

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12-20-10 02:36 PM
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I'm not very religious. I grew up in a Catholic house. One of my uncles is a hardcore Christian and his brother is gay. The Christian uncle tried to explain to his brother all the stuff about burning in he**, etc. It's been a few years and they sort of get along now.

My cousin rebelled against CCD for years. She spent weeks sneaking off to Honey Dew for an hour while her mom thought she was at CCD. She'll go to a memorial mass for our grandparents, but she won't go up for the bread. She's one of the only people who sits back. Personally, I admire her for sticking to her beliefs instead of conforming.

Besides that, I found too many inconsistencies. The Bible was written by a regular person, not some higher being. I'll skip the rest of my thoughts and just post a YouTube video from someone else that summarizes it.

Skip ahead to around 0:30 for the Christianity part:




***This video was made as a joke, not an insult. Don't take it too seriously.***

I'm not very religious. I grew up in a Catholic house. One of my uncles is a hardcore Christian and his brother is gay. The Christian uncle tried to explain to his brother all the stuff about burning in he**, etc. It's been a few years and they sort of get along now.

My cousin rebelled against CCD for years. She spent weeks sneaking off to Honey Dew for an hour while her mom thought she was at CCD. She'll go to a memorial mass for our grandparents, but she won't go up for the bread. She's one of the only people who sits back. Personally, I admire her for sticking to her beliefs instead of conforming.

Besides that, I found too many inconsistencies. The Bible was written by a regular person, not some higher being. I'll skip the rest of my thoughts and just post a YouTube video from someone else that summarizes it.

Skip ahead to around 0:30 for the Christianity part:




***This video was made as a joke, not an insult. Don't take it too seriously.***

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(edited by BNuge on 12-20-10 02:38 PM)    

12-20-10 08:36 PM
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I believe in God and Jesus, but I'm not all for going to Church. It's just not for me.
I believe in God and Jesus, but I'm not all for going to Church. It's just not for me.
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12-20-10 08:57 PM
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Yes, it's "for me". I'm a Christian, and I believe in Jesus. Cool guy, he was.

I don't get how people don't think that even some kind of "deity" made this world. It's so cleverly made, it wasn't just by accident.

But anywho, yes, I believe in a religion, and the only true one at that.
Yes, it's "for me". I'm a Christian, and I believe in Jesus. Cool guy, he was.

I don't get how people don't think that even some kind of "deity" made this world. It's so cleverly made, it wasn't just by accident.

But anywho, yes, I believe in a religion, and the only true one at that.
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12-20-10 10:29 PM
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Robert7 : I'm not saying Jesus wasn't a real dude. There's evidence he was. A god though? Idk. Yes, this world is pretty divine, but you don't also think it's part of the evolution of the planet? Did "God" make all the other planets too?
Robert7 : I'm not saying Jesus wasn't a real dude. There's evidence he was. A god though? Idk. Yes, this world is pretty divine, but you don't also think it's part of the evolution of the planet? Did "God" make all the other planets too?
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12-20-10 10:35 PM
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bchawk88 : Well yeah, there's plenty evidence, but most people choose not to believe it.

Nope, no evolution. That's kinda silly.

Yup, God made everything. EVERYTHING. Like, limitless miles of un-inhabited space. That's really amazing, don't you think?
bchawk88 : Well yeah, there's plenty evidence, but most people choose not to believe it.

Nope, no evolution. That's kinda silly.

Yup, God made everything. EVERYTHING. Like, limitless miles of un-inhabited space. That's really amazing, don't you think?
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12-21-10 12:51 AM
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What evidence? The creation of the universe does not require a god. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-09/02/hawking-god
What evidence? The creation of the universe does not require a god. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-09/02/hawking-god
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12-21-10 01:54 AM
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Robert7 : See it's solid answers like that which make me stay away from religion. Evolution is silly? So we were just placed here? Were the dinosaurs a test? Were there no organisms before us? Why is there disease and famine in the region of the world which was the origin of belief? Did the Greeks just make up their gods wayyyyyyy before Christianity? Did the Sumerians just make up those rocket ships on their tablets? What's up with all that?
Robert7 : See it's solid answers like that which make me stay away from religion. Evolution is silly? So we were just placed here? Were the dinosaurs a test? Were there no organisms before us? Why is there disease and famine in the region of the world which was the origin of belief? Did the Greeks just make up their gods wayyyyyyy before Christianity? Did the Sumerians just make up those rocket ships on their tablets? What's up with all that?
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12-21-10 02:34 AM
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Traduweise : With all due respect to Stephen Hawking, putting his faith on M-theory does not make a difference. Knowing that there is a theory that would unite all theories only shows that everything is connected in physics laws. It would still require a creator to create those laws and have order and purpose in the world. His "first blow" on his original beliefs was not really a problem either. He thinks it is a problem when another planet revolves around another star. That does not mean much. One argument about how there must be a God is how earth is made for a purpose that no other planets have.
The fact that:
it has liquid water,
an atmosphere made of nitrogen and oxygen,
tectonics plates that move that regulates the temperature of the interior,
a moon that is large enough to regulate seasons,
the sun is just the right size for a star,
it is with in the "habitable zone" in the solar system,
even the position of the earth in the milky way is in such a position that is suitable for life
etc etc...

ALL of these factors must be met so that life can exist, and earth is the only planet to date that mets ALL of these factors. The odds of being able to meet ALL of these requirements for life to exist is = 1/1,000,000,000,000,000. Yet Earth met all of it. Either you can say that we won the cosmic lottery, meaning that it is by chance that we were able to have earth the way it is, or you must have some creator that plans, designs, and positions all of this to be "just right." From our minds, it is impossible that this would be by chance.

Segment from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQQm_H7Eo8A&feature=related

bchawk88 : If you believe that Jesus exists, then you also need to consider His claim. He claimed to be God. To say that you believe that Jesus was real but God is not, then you are saying that Jesus is either a lunatic or a liar. This also means that you cannot say that Jesus was a good moral teacher if he is a lunatic or a liar.

Read what I wrote to traduweise about the complexity and the uniqueness of the earth. Also, I don't get your list of questions from your last post. Maybe elaborate?
Traduweise : With all due respect to Stephen Hawking, putting his faith on M-theory does not make a difference. Knowing that there is a theory that would unite all theories only shows that everything is connected in physics laws. It would still require a creator to create those laws and have order and purpose in the world. His "first blow" on his original beliefs was not really a problem either. He thinks it is a problem when another planet revolves around another star. That does not mean much. One argument about how there must be a God is how earth is made for a purpose that no other planets have.
The fact that:
it has liquid water,
an atmosphere made of nitrogen and oxygen,
tectonics plates that move that regulates the temperature of the interior,
a moon that is large enough to regulate seasons,
the sun is just the right size for a star,
it is with in the "habitable zone" in the solar system,
even the position of the earth in the milky way is in such a position that is suitable for life
etc etc...

ALL of these factors must be met so that life can exist, and earth is the only planet to date that mets ALL of these factors. The odds of being able to meet ALL of these requirements for life to exist is = 1/1,000,000,000,000,000. Yet Earth met all of it. Either you can say that we won the cosmic lottery, meaning that it is by chance that we were able to have earth the way it is, or you must have some creator that plans, designs, and positions all of this to be "just right." From our minds, it is impossible that this would be by chance.

Segment from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQQm_H7Eo8A&feature=related

bchawk88 : If you believe that Jesus exists, then you also need to consider His claim. He claimed to be God. To say that you believe that Jesus was real but God is not, then you are saying that Jesus is either a lunatic or a liar. This also means that you cannot say that Jesus was a good moral teacher if he is a lunatic or a liar.

Read what I wrote to traduweise about the complexity and the uniqueness of the earth. Also, I don't get your list of questions from your last post. Maybe elaborate?
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(edited by play4fun on 12-21-10 02:39 AM)    

12-21-10 11:17 AM
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play4fun : You are missing the point on the Hawking article. It does not require a creator; all those laws could have arisen naturally. And if we were to just to sit back and declare "God did it." every time we seem to reach an impasse, where would be? What causes gravity? God does it. What causes speciation? God does it. What causes cancer? God does it. What caused the beginning of the universe? God did it. Every day we learn more about the universe. Were we to accept that "God did it", we would have reached an intellectual dead-end long ago.

Furthermore, your claim that there are no other planets capable of supporting life is facetious. With the trillions of potential planets out there, we have only the surveyed the other 8 (or 7 if you eliminate Pluto) planets in our solar system. Heck, it may even be possible that there is life on Triton: life within our solar system seperate from earth. Also bear in mind that the factors you listed do not necessarily make it easier for "life" to exist; simply for life on earth that has adapted specifically for this environment to exist.

Now let's take a look at your claim that the odds of life existing is 1/1,000,000,000,000,000. I actually laughed at that, because there is absolutely nothing behind it. Someone quite literally made that up and now you are trying to pass it off as truth. The whole "cosmic lottery" notion is nonsense. As Mark Twain said, "There are three kinds of lies. Lies, dammed lies, and statistics."

But since you have decided to post a youtube link, I may as well do the same. Here is a simplistic look how earth is more than just a random chance. Making up statistics is not convincing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3nvH6gfrTc&feature=related

And just one little extra. Even if Jesus were mad or liar, as you posit, that does not mean his teachings were necessarily all bad. That is simply an ad hominem fallacy.

play4fun : You are missing the point on the Hawking article. It does not require a creator; all those laws could have arisen naturally. And if we were to just to sit back and declare "God did it." every time we seem to reach an impasse, where would be? What causes gravity? God does it. What causes speciation? God does it. What causes cancer? God does it. What caused the beginning of the universe? God did it. Every day we learn more about the universe. Were we to accept that "God did it", we would have reached an intellectual dead-end long ago.

Furthermore, your claim that there are no other planets capable of supporting life is facetious. With the trillions of potential planets out there, we have only the surveyed the other 8 (or 7 if you eliminate Pluto) planets in our solar system. Heck, it may even be possible that there is life on Triton: life within our solar system seperate from earth. Also bear in mind that the factors you listed do not necessarily make it easier for "life" to exist; simply for life on earth that has adapted specifically for this environment to exist.

Now let's take a look at your claim that the odds of life existing is 1/1,000,000,000,000,000. I actually laughed at that, because there is absolutely nothing behind it. Someone quite literally made that up and now you are trying to pass it off as truth. The whole "cosmic lottery" notion is nonsense. As Mark Twain said, "There are three kinds of lies. Lies, dammed lies, and statistics."

But since you have decided to post a youtube link, I may as well do the same. Here is a simplistic look how earth is more than just a random chance. Making up statistics is not convincing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3nvH6gfrTc&feature=related

And just one little extra. Even if Jesus were mad or liar, as you posit, that does not mean his teachings were necessarily all bad. That is simply an ad hominem fallacy.

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12-21-10 11:41 AM
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I'm not even gonna take the time to read those. Call me closed-minded, call me what you will, but I'm happy with what I believe.

The bible has enough evidence for me, and I believe it. I reccommend that you do, but I can't do a thing past that except tell you about it.
I'm not even gonna take the time to read those. Call me closed-minded, call me what you will, but I'm happy with what I believe.

The bible has enough evidence for me, and I believe it. I reccommend that you do, but I can't do a thing past that except tell you about it.
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12-21-10 01:55 PM
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play4fun : Yes, our solar system has all the ingredients for a habitable planet and that there is a 1/1,000,000,000,000,000 chance of it happening...but how many planets are there in the UNIVERSE? There are 10+ times that number of galaxies and 1,000+ times the solar systems and I'm sure that's way under. There has to be intelligent life other than us humans on this planet.

There is nothing to elaborate upon in my questions. I don't mean to sound rude but they are pretty self explained:

Sumerians were the first civilization on this earth. They claimed on tablets that they were met by beings they served and thought to be their gods. Extraterrestrials. So what is that about considering God? unless you count a higher, divine being as an Alien.

Dinosaurs roamed waaaaaayyyy before any sign of any form of human. What's that about? Did God make them too? Why?

When the Greeks came about, they had a religion and set of Gods way before Christianity or Catholicism. Are those gods false? What makes them false?

Robert7 : That, I respect. At least being happy with what you believe. Still, open your mind just a bit. I know I do sometimes.
play4fun : Yes, our solar system has all the ingredients for a habitable planet and that there is a 1/1,000,000,000,000,000 chance of it happening...but how many planets are there in the UNIVERSE? There are 10+ times that number of galaxies and 1,000+ times the solar systems and I'm sure that's way under. There has to be intelligent life other than us humans on this planet.

There is nothing to elaborate upon in my questions. I don't mean to sound rude but they are pretty self explained:

Sumerians were the first civilization on this earth. They claimed on tablets that they were met by beings they served and thought to be their gods. Extraterrestrials. So what is that about considering God? unless you count a higher, divine being as an Alien.

Dinosaurs roamed waaaaaayyyy before any sign of any form of human. What's that about? Did God make them too? Why?

When the Greeks came about, they had a religion and set of Gods way before Christianity or Catholicism. Are those gods false? What makes them false?

Robert7 : That, I respect. At least being happy with what you believe. Still, open your mind just a bit. I know I do sometimes.
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12-21-10 06:57 PM
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Traduweise : Law naturally come up by themselves makes less sense. It challenges your own common sense. If you walked out of your home, and saw 20 leaves lining up in front of the door in a straight line, you would not say that the wind blows it so that it can line up that way. There has to be someone who lines it up.

That is obviously not true. From my first post, I talked about how many scientist were motivated to study science knowing that God created the world and that they do so to glorify God and try to understand HOW God did it. Yeah, God did it, but it won't stop me from studying about it. I want to know how God did it. And the fact that we can UNDERSTAND how many of these things work and the fact that the stuff that we do study are so detailed and, in some cases, complicated, you can't help but think about it. If you are a doctor or someone who studies the body, you can see so many amazing things your own body can do in any task, even if you push it to the limit.

Albert Einstein: " I want to know God's thoughts...the rest are details."

I'm talking specifically for us humans and the creatures on earth to exist. The fact that we CANNOT exist if one of these factors are not met is amazing to me. Seriously, take one factor out, we would not exist. Not only that, if it was different in the smallest margin. If the sun is too small (if I remember correctly, within 5% [not accurate number]), our planet would be a snowy wasteland. If it were too large, our planet is burned up. This planet is made for the purpose of us to live on.

The whole point of the statistics to show how likely something like that can be repeated, which for our earth, very unlikely.

The whole point of the "lunatic, liar, or lord" argument is that no one can stop at "Jesus is a good moral teacher." With the claims that he made, one must make a decision on whether He is a lunatic, liar or lord. These are not small claims. He claims to be the only way. And if you were to say that He is Lord, then you cannot just say that God doesn't exist...since He claims to be God.

bchawk88 : Who says there has to be intelligent life outside of this planet? The fact that all of these factors are required for us to live. Missing one of these factors, and we can't survive here. I know I am probably missing more factors, but this is to show that our world is made for the purpose of us living here.

Sumerians themselves are polytheistic. They believe anything to have be god. They can be like the how the Aztecs are when they thought the Spanish are gods when they came with horses and gunpowder, or like when Paul and Barnabas were thought to be gods when they healed a lame man in Lystra (Acts 14:8-19)

God made everything for one ultimate purpose, to display his eternal power and divine nature. It is to glorify God's amazing power when discovering all of these things. So you can talk about the universe or the dinosaurs or the deepest valleys in the sea or the tallest mountains, the magnitude of the size to the smallest of details give glory to a world of complexity and the God who makes all of it.

Just to let you know, Christianity is basically the continuation of Judaism, which came about before the Greeks.

If you think about it, different civilizations with beliefs of a god should indicate that there must be some type of deity that existed in order for them to think that in the first place. They would not just decide randomly that "ok, I'm gonna say that a deity created all of this." If that were true, we would only see one or two civilizations with a religion or a spiritual belief. However, many civilizations, especially the earliest civilizations, from different cultures have a belief of a god. They are related in terms of their hearts, because a god must have created all of them and instilled a god given knowledge of god in their hearts. And because of our sinful and imperfect nature, we would neglect what the true God's attributes are and make up a god that would suit our own desires and truth. And we would make our own idols in our life. But the true God would still be there, there will always be something telling you or nagging you that there must be a God. If rejecting it, and it turns there is a God, there would be no excuse from you.
Traduweise : Law naturally come up by themselves makes less sense. It challenges your own common sense. If you walked out of your home, and saw 20 leaves lining up in front of the door in a straight line, you would not say that the wind blows it so that it can line up that way. There has to be someone who lines it up.

That is obviously not true. From my first post, I talked about how many scientist were motivated to study science knowing that God created the world and that they do so to glorify God and try to understand HOW God did it. Yeah, God did it, but it won't stop me from studying about it. I want to know how God did it. And the fact that we can UNDERSTAND how many of these things work and the fact that the stuff that we do study are so detailed and, in some cases, complicated, you can't help but think about it. If you are a doctor or someone who studies the body, you can see so many amazing things your own body can do in any task, even if you push it to the limit.

Albert Einstein: " I want to know God's thoughts...the rest are details."

I'm talking specifically for us humans and the creatures on earth to exist. The fact that we CANNOT exist if one of these factors are not met is amazing to me. Seriously, take one factor out, we would not exist. Not only that, if it was different in the smallest margin. If the sun is too small (if I remember correctly, within 5% [not accurate number]), our planet would be a snowy wasteland. If it were too large, our planet is burned up. This planet is made for the purpose of us to live on.

The whole point of the statistics to show how likely something like that can be repeated, which for our earth, very unlikely.

The whole point of the "lunatic, liar, or lord" argument is that no one can stop at "Jesus is a good moral teacher." With the claims that he made, one must make a decision on whether He is a lunatic, liar or lord. These are not small claims. He claims to be the only way. And if you were to say that He is Lord, then you cannot just say that God doesn't exist...since He claims to be God.

bchawk88 : Who says there has to be intelligent life outside of this planet? The fact that all of these factors are required for us to live. Missing one of these factors, and we can't survive here. I know I am probably missing more factors, but this is to show that our world is made for the purpose of us living here.

Sumerians themselves are polytheistic. They believe anything to have be god. They can be like the how the Aztecs are when they thought the Spanish are gods when they came with horses and gunpowder, or like when Paul and Barnabas were thought to be gods when they healed a lame man in Lystra (Acts 14:8-19)

God made everything for one ultimate purpose, to display his eternal power and divine nature. It is to glorify God's amazing power when discovering all of these things. So you can talk about the universe or the dinosaurs or the deepest valleys in the sea or the tallest mountains, the magnitude of the size to the smallest of details give glory to a world of complexity and the God who makes all of it.

Just to let you know, Christianity is basically the continuation of Judaism, which came about before the Greeks.

If you think about it, different civilizations with beliefs of a god should indicate that there must be some type of deity that existed in order for them to think that in the first place. They would not just decide randomly that "ok, I'm gonna say that a deity created all of this." If that were true, we would only see one or two civilizations with a religion or a spiritual belief. However, many civilizations, especially the earliest civilizations, from different cultures have a belief of a god. They are related in terms of their hearts, because a god must have created all of them and instilled a god given knowledge of god in their hearts. And because of our sinful and imperfect nature, we would neglect what the true God's attributes are and make up a god that would suit our own desires and truth. And we would make our own idols in our life. But the true God would still be there, there will always be something telling you or nagging you that there must be a God. If rejecting it, and it turns there is a God, there would be no excuse from you.
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12-21-10 07:59 PM
Traduweise is Offline
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play4fun : I don't know what your first sentence is supposed to mean, but I'm guessing you are trying to say that natural laws (the laws of physics) make sense because they must have been created. But the main reason these laws make sense is because we are used to them. If we lived in a universe without the gravitational force, the concept of it would seem odd to us initially. And how 20 leaves lining up is in any way comparable to the creation and layout of the universe is entirely beyond me.

Your second paragraph is somewhat off. It's funny you should try to imagine what other scientists were thinking as they pursued their studies; regardless of their personal beliefs, the actual science behind something like evolution (Darwin was trying to do exactly what you mentioned: glorify god) is just science. Concluding that "God did it" does not in any way further our knowledge of the universe. Evolution today stands on its own as a scientific theory, and religion plays no part in it unless superimposed. It is why science and religion are two seperate fields: one deals with empirical data and the other with faith. And as the article I posted shows, the empirical evidence does not require faith.

And really, the movie I showed fairly adequately dismantled the whole statistics thing. Statistics is meaningless here. I can easily point out that light travels approximately 300,000km/s. In one year, light travels almost 10 trillion kilometres. And yet, it takes light about 13.7 billion years to traverse half the length of the universe. 10 trillion kilometres times 13.7 billion years is about 13.7^25 kilometres. It's a massive amount of space containing trillions, perhaps more, stars and planets. However, most of it is just light years of empty space. Now of this universe, we know 1 planet, spanning about 12,750 kilometres (from 13.7^25 kilometres) has life on it. And this is supposed to prove the universe was designed to support life? You might want to take a broader look at things.

And yes, one can absolutely say that Jesus was a liar or lunatic (or perhaps just a very good salesman), and a good moral teacher at the same time. Claiming that what someone says is invalid because of a possible blemish on the person's character is a logical fallacy known as an ad hominem. Ghandi was a good person, but he was not nice to his parents. This does not mean that we should not take some of what he said to heart. Or in this case, if Jesus was a liar, that would not automatically invalidate everything he said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Oh, and Einstein's concept of god-appeal to authority, et cetera-differed greatly from what you probably think it is. Pantheism is far closer to the notion that "anything has to be god" than polytheism.
http://irresistibledisgrace.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/einsteins-pantheism/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheism

play4fun : I don't know what your first sentence is supposed to mean, but I'm guessing you are trying to say that natural laws (the laws of physics) make sense because they must have been created. But the main reason these laws make sense is because we are used to them. If we lived in a universe without the gravitational force, the concept of it would seem odd to us initially. And how 20 leaves lining up is in any way comparable to the creation and layout of the universe is entirely beyond me.

Your second paragraph is somewhat off. It's funny you should try to imagine what other scientists were thinking as they pursued their studies; regardless of their personal beliefs, the actual science behind something like evolution (Darwin was trying to do exactly what you mentioned: glorify god) is just science. Concluding that "God did it" does not in any way further our knowledge of the universe. Evolution today stands on its own as a scientific theory, and religion plays no part in it unless superimposed. It is why science and religion are two seperate fields: one deals with empirical data and the other with faith. And as the article I posted shows, the empirical evidence does not require faith.

And really, the movie I showed fairly adequately dismantled the whole statistics thing. Statistics is meaningless here. I can easily point out that light travels approximately 300,000km/s. In one year, light travels almost 10 trillion kilometres. And yet, it takes light about 13.7 billion years to traverse half the length of the universe. 10 trillion kilometres times 13.7 billion years is about 13.7^25 kilometres. It's a massive amount of space containing trillions, perhaps more, stars and planets. However, most of it is just light years of empty space. Now of this universe, we know 1 planet, spanning about 12,750 kilometres (from 13.7^25 kilometres) has life on it. And this is supposed to prove the universe was designed to support life? You might want to take a broader look at things.

And yes, one can absolutely say that Jesus was a liar or lunatic (or perhaps just a very good salesman), and a good moral teacher at the same time. Claiming that what someone says is invalid because of a possible blemish on the person's character is a logical fallacy known as an ad hominem. Ghandi was a good person, but he was not nice to his parents. This does not mean that we should not take some of what he said to heart. Or in this case, if Jesus was a liar, that would not automatically invalidate everything he said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Oh, and Einstein's concept of god-appeal to authority, et cetera-differed greatly from what you probably think it is. Pantheism is far closer to the notion that "anything has to be god" than polytheism.
http://irresistibledisgrace.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/einsteins-pantheism/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheism

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(edited by Traduweise on 12-21-10 07:59 PM)    

12-21-10 11:46 PM
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play4fun : I can't believe I haven't put that together myself. The belief of gods in any civilization, in turn, meaning there must be be some higher power.

I'm not saying anyone says there HAS to be other life in this universe but think of the chances, really. Of the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000+ planets there must be, you really think WE are the only ones? I think not.
play4fun : I can't believe I haven't put that together myself. The belief of gods in any civilization, in turn, meaning there must be be some higher power.

I'm not saying anyone says there HAS to be other life in this universe but think of the chances, really. Of the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000+ planets there must be, you really think WE are the only ones? I think not.
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01-10-11 01:00 AM
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I agree that the likelihood that there is no other life out there to be pretty silly. The universe is too big to not have managed other life. However, I don't see why it should matter if there is other life out there when it comes to religion.... I don't see those things as mutually exclusive.

The thing I personally find interesting is the similarity of religions early in human civilization. There are aspects to religions found around the world that came about at nearly the same time in history but were thousands of miles apart and sometimes separated by oceans. Does this simply prove a common human source or supernatural source... I don't think anyone can know.... but it is interesting.

as for the initial question... is religion for me. Yes it is. I have found that by following the tenants of my religion as best as I can that I have been a better person than I otherwise would have been. That is what I have used my religion to do. I'm trying to be a better person and in turn trying to encourage others to do the same. I'm not perfect but I personally feel that I will accomplish more by trying to be a good person than by simply going out and trying to have as much "fun" as possible.
I agree that the likelihood that there is no other life out there to be pretty silly. The universe is too big to not have managed other life. However, I don't see why it should matter if there is other life out there when it comes to religion.... I don't see those things as mutually exclusive.

The thing I personally find interesting is the similarity of religions early in human civilization. There are aspects to religions found around the world that came about at nearly the same time in history but were thousands of miles apart and sometimes separated by oceans. Does this simply prove a common human source or supernatural source... I don't think anyone can know.... but it is interesting.

as for the initial question... is religion for me. Yes it is. I have found that by following the tenants of my religion as best as I can that I have been a better person than I otherwise would have been. That is what I have used my religion to do. I'm trying to be a better person and in turn trying to encourage others to do the same. I'm not perfect but I personally feel that I will accomplish more by trying to be a good person than by simply going out and trying to have as much "fun" as possible.
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01-10-11 01:41 PM
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geeogree : I see. I agree that the ancient civilizations similarities in religion practice is interesting. I've thought about that myself.
geeogree : I see. I agree that the ancient civilizations similarities in religion practice is interesting. I've thought about that myself.
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