Why do you beleive in your idol or God? I believe in God simply because without his sacrifice, I would not be here, and because, the bible commands. I would love for everyone in the would to believe in God one day, but I guess that won't happen any time soon, or ever. It aches me to see inocent people get casts into the fires of hell. I wish everyone would go to heaven, but those who don't believe, I'm afraid won't make it.

Enough of my babbling. What is you reason for believing what you believe?

I believe in science and reasoning due to the fact of that I've never seen such a celestial being. I believe in tangible objects, it's the same reason why I don't believe in Easter bunny or Santa Claus anymore. I'm not saying God is a fictional character, I'm just supporting my belief that, just as a parent could tell their child there is no Santa Claus and they'd believe it, the same goes for God, because there's no real proof of existence.

I believe that God exist because through reason and common sense, I can see the world and see how everything is well-designed and with a purpose, with my study in science I see the orderly and amazing things that is established in the universe. The idea that we can actually study a lot of these laws and the universe is already incredible.

I trust in Jesus as my personal savior because I know through my conscience that I am wretched. A filth compared to God. Yet God willingly became a man and came and died for me, and everyone else on this earth, and in receiving God's gift of salvation, I am free, from God's wrath and my own sin.

I believe God is real because the idea that everything is an accident is quite absurd. And not believing something is there because you can't see it or experiment on it is also absurd. I believe in the God that I do because he died so that I don't burn for eternity. I believe in him because he holds me accountable for what I do and he convicts me when I do wrong.

Hoochman : God didn't die, Jesus did.

It doesn't take a genius to sacrifice a person for sacrilege.

Ever heard of the salem witch trials?
That is what beliefs do.

I prefer not to discuss my religious beliefs, however, I will say this: I believe in me. If God or whoever (parents?) or whatever gave me this body, they also gave me free will. Nothing I do would ever happen if I didn't get up and do it myself. I don't even know if I am real. For all I know, we could all be in a video game or virtual reality or something of the sort. As a child, I often gazed in the mirror and wondered why I look the way I do and why did I exist? How do I know that this isn't my universe that I see my way? I was very curious as a child; always asking a question. The only thing that I feel comfortable saying that I believe are my actions and who I am.

shredknives : Jesus and God,same thing. And if you actually knew anything about the Bible, you'd know that The Salem witch trials had nothing to do with Christians.

The Salem Witch Trials weren't recorded in the bible...
The bible is an incurably old book that states no fact but rather opinion, because the second a fact is stated it is then disproved by the atheistic reasoners that are scientists.
I read the bible, and Christians persecuted those who they thought were wicked, or "witched" in the case of the Salem witch trials.

Not to critize you athetist and science guys, but though science has brought us all a long way in the field of industry and many more things, science has it's flaws. Acording to scientist we belong to the animal kingdom because we've "evolved" from some sort of primate, but if it takes several million years to evolve, that means the planet is older than what scientist believe. Also, if evolvution ends one's kind or race, then that means that all animals on the face of the earth would nonexistint. Because, according to scientist, we all evolved from the very first bacterium or animal. Personally, I refuse to put in an animals places. We clearly are the superior speices on the planet. It says in the bible that God put us over the animals of the world that he created.

Evolution can be increased under certain circumstances, none said it takes a definite 7 million years to evolve... They say it "could"

Anything else I say here wouldn't be related to Why we believe, it would turn into debate, so I'm no longer responding to someone who cannot grasp the concept of evolution.

shredknives : Again you fail to understand the Bible as well as the conditions it was written in, it is historical and it was writted down from what the culture experienced.

You obviously don't understand the bible, because it's historical fiction due to the lack of proof to any of the things written in it. It wasn't written by God, it was written by people, and hate to say it, but people are natural born liars.

shredknives : No, I know it a lot better than you. If you're going to call the Bible written by liars, than you might as well call every other historical document a lie. And actually the Bible does have proof to back it up.

shredknives : I would like to challenge that idea that the Bible is historical fiction. I would start off by saying that the Bible is as historical and authentic of a work as every other ancient work, like works of Julius Caesar or Plato.

I wrote some evidence for that here:
https://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/thread.php?id=12193&ppp=100&page=0#192909

I say the bible is a work of historical fiction in the sense that it is a hand written record that doesn't have evidence pertaining to the stories it tells in the old and new testament. I'm not criticizing the bible, calling it a book without merit, it just doesn't have enough evidence to be considered a chapter of history in my mind.

Also, I am unfamiliar with the works of Caesar, but if I was presented with evidence enough to prove existence of certain individuals then I would immediately swing my answer from one extreme to the other.

However, even if a character like Jesus existed, and I'm not saying he doesn't, who is to say he performed miracles and not just... came from the future and performed CPR, because honestly.. I have enough evidence supporting that Jesus is a time traveler as most anyone else does saying that he is a savior.

Also, the idea of Hoochman who seems like a devout christian, devoted to the point of belligerence, being presented with the knowledge that Jesus, if he in fact existed would have been of African ethnic backgrounds or even Hebrew background, was a black man.

mr.pace : Actually, evolution doesn't always take that long. When a new change occurs in a given environment, it effects all of the organisms there. Some may live, some may die. The ones who die have their genetic information lost, however, the ones who lives spread their genes to the next generation who were well suited to survive the challenges of the new environment. For example, let's say that a black forest full of squirrels suddenly turned white. The dark fur squirrels will be sitting ducks for predators and will have a much harder time surviving now that their camouflage is gone. However, the light fur squirrels (whose chances at survival were unfavorable for the same reason before) will be able to blend in with the trees and such, those having a longer life compared to the average dark fur squirrel. Longer life = more children. Eventually, the dominant squirrel population will be white squirrels all with similar characteristics of the earliest ones.

See? Adversity forces change in nature.

NotJon : Very interesting. So you're telling me that evolution doesn't take a million years or so, but rather than just getting acustom to your surrounds. I believe scientist classified that as adaptation. Though, I could be wrong, so do explain.



shredknives : I mean to start a debate with you. I merely wanted to prove a point. That evolution wipes out one's race meaning us humans would be the only exsisting creatures. I personally believe that the Bible has all prove of God's exsistence. You simply need to know where to read and understand it correctly. I have a friend who's athetist, so I know it is nearly impossible to convert one into believing my religion. Of course, I've notice that over time, if you use propreganda, they'll begin to sway, but this isn't a thread to convert people now is it. That's your choice.

He wasn't talking about adaptation, he was referencing a version of natural selection. Those with more intelligent features survived, and were able to continue breeding, yet those with less desirable qualities for their environment either died out or separated. THAT is why we have different species, and not just all the same person. Also... if evolution hadn't occurred, I hope you realize that that would make all of us the inbred offspring of generation upon generation. So, You can stay inbred all you want and believe what you believe, and I'll believe in what I believe in.

mr.pace : Evolution occurs as a result of the organisms who are able adapt to changes in their environment and reproduce. It does take millions of years to see drastic changes in organisms. However, small changes in the types of traits inherited over generations can be enough for the adaptation of populations of species facing adversity (like with the squirrels) to at least survive. Over time, the organisms who are able to survive better will have their traits go through successive generations and over time will be able to make greater use of their environment. This is a big reason why inbreeding is not good as it does not allow for more traits to be introduced resulting in more vulnerability to changes.

mr.pace : What he's referring to is actually evolution. It doesn't have to be the whole "single cell to man" path or anything similar to be evolution, it is rather a different facet that most call adaptation... and the only facet that actually takes place.