New gamers are soft that is my opinion because most of the self proclaimed hardcore gamers i have met are full of it, they call themselves hardcore but if you quiz them you soon find out that all they play are C.O.D. type FPS games and the odd sport game, that the only consoles they have ever played are by Microsoft or Sony and they don't even know gaming history either.

Most older games are disliked by these people because they are either graphics hoes or to hard for them, a easy way to prove this is to challenge one to a 1cc on a Shmup and you can see how angry they get that they cant get halfway through the first level which will inevitably get the game called crap by them because of this.

Don't get me wrong i used to love fps games and i have tried all i can rent but these days they just seem to be generic to me in a same old, same old kind of way i just find its all blockbuster graphics and big explosions i just dont find them fun anymore the challenge isn't there. If i could wish for one thing it would be to make these games harder no! ALL games harder because what seems to be released today is to easy all because the casual gamer side of the market has taken over the hardcore gaming market.

Give me the original Doom and Quake any day over these clones of real games.

Rant over...

Thanks for reading.

C.S.S.

Well, as much as I hate it when people are over-obsessed with FPS games all time, they're still probably hardcore.
I'd say... casual would count as the people who don't really play as much video games and play very easy games compared to those. But people who play online all the time or play great single player games or great classic games could be considered hardcore in my opinion.
I do agree though. There's too much FPS and casual gaming out there. Some people would defend the casual gaming market, saying that it leads them to playing more hardcore games, but in fact they'll just stay within the casual games and not upgrade to harder games. I don't mind them making more casual games, but they shouldn't lower the production of hardcore games or lower the difficulty of hardcore games like how some Wii games are(I still like Zelda, Metroid and all the other hardcore franchises though XD). I am pretty glad that Nintendo decided to go hardcore for this year.

Way to true. When My Brother played my SNES, he complained about how bad the graphics are, how stiff the controls are, etc, etc, etc. It really made me mad.

At least i now know that there are similar minded people out there and that it is not just me.

The gamers you describe sound exactly like BROS! I bet half of the new gamers couldn't beat Contra. Honestly, a real hardcore gamer has two favorite games: favorite modern game(God of War Trilogy) and favorite oldschool game (megaman x 1-3). However, they also have a merit for these games and they have played a multitude of systems and genres. If you own a PS3 and Xbox360 and Wii and nothing else... you can NOT be hardcore gamer by my definition.

And graphics get way too much credit. People love them so much that they sacrifice gameplay standards. I'll take an ugly challenging game over a beautiful easy game.

I agree with you you cannot just play a PS3 or XBOX and then say you are hardcore. I have a PS3 and a Wii i used to have a 360 too till i realised how crap it was after number three but i also own many older consoles, the good graphics of the newer systems are nice but the gameplay of old is better, I prefer gameplay over graphics any day.

cob : Barely anyone has ever beaten Contra without cheats.

Also how are FPS's clones of Doom and Quake again, just because you can shoot? In that case Final Fantasy ripped off Ultima.

They have cloned the original formula which I don't mind I just feel that the newer FPS games have lost there way. The last FPS game I enjoyed was killzone 2 I found that it managed to capture the fun factor that has been missing for so many years. Thea's days it's like you cannot enjoy yourself you have to play these games using all the in game inventory that your given or you get told you don't know how to play the game no matter how good you are and if you rack up many kills you get accused of cheating.

The problem with graphics is that to fully take advantage of it, you need to do cutscenes and FMV. The more of those you have, the less interactivity there is in the game, leading to crap like FFXIII and stupid quicktime events (press x to not die). Dragon's Lair was nothing BUT cutscenes and quicktime events, and it sucked.

I personally think quick time events are in games to spice up things because the programmers realised that there game is bland or to stop you realising that the best bits are FMV.

i hate those kind of new gamers. they go and criticize all of the good games and say all the horrible ones are the best. when i was new, i first played SMB3, and other NES games, then i went to some older ones like the ps2. people should really play old games before going to play all that other junk!

You are right. I hate people that are like the wii sucks PS3 and 360 have the best graphics and all the games are hardcore. I like playing the classics like SMB and super mario world. I know my video game history almost perfect and i do own a n64. Old NES games were really challenging and took time to beat. ive been playing megaman and i can barely get past like 2 guys on there because the games are so hard and pose a challenge. People today dont like there games to be that hard. Game companies should bring back the challange and the difficulty in there games!!!! you are totally right Cloudsnakeskin

Ill tell you that Bayonetta is a beautiful hardcore game.

MegaRevolution1 : SMB 3 was the first game I ever beat all the way through, when I was 3! That's a classic good one. And you're totally right. You should always start with the older games, understand the origins of everything in technology now.

Cloudsnakeskin :

Casual gamers were the guys who made the game industry what it is today. Hardcore gamers are the ones who make a hobby out of it. And... Real games? What's a real game? A game on the Real 3DO?

Also, I don't like the new gamers who hate old games just for them being old. I also find the gamers who think this effects us hardcore gamers seriously not so likable. You are the guys who should be helping these gamers out with the games they like if you also like them, not complaining. Besides, like I said, they shell out the money. Money = More games.

Some of us were once like these jaded by technology gamers, as well. I was once. I would refuse to play Atari 2600 games for a long time just because of the screenshot I saw of the game Adventure.

I like old games but most old games usually are more boring. Its rare to find a old game that I enjoy more then a modern game. Although when you do find games that are equal to or more fun then modern games, its awesome.

I really enjoy the older games like Mario and the original Pac man. But the new games are better without comparison. You have so many more options and moves in new games.

Hoochman : This is very evident in Rogue Galaxy. I mean... They fit over 100 hours of gameplay into one disc. This only goes to that amount of hours if you play it and do all the extra stuff, but still. Star Ocean 3 couldn't do this for some unknown reason. Must have been the time it came out, as Rogue Galaxy came out during the PS2's funeral.

I like newer games more, as I'm a freak for features, but those old RPGs are just impossible to hate. I also will never hate most old FPS games. Doom, you still get a German salute from me to you.

im a new gamer and i know where we came from and were we are and it ticks me off when people bash the old consoles. Without them we wouldnt be consoles now! Without Nintendo there would be no Xbox or PS3

billythekidmonster : Well, Nintendo sorta wouldn't be around without the Maxnavox Odyssey, and the Atari 2600. Nintendo was originally a playing card company in the 1800's, then transitioned to making toys. That's when the video game part set in.

There certainly wouldn't be any Playstations if Nintendo didn't jump on the CD gaming bandwagon for a month or two and then told Sony, "Whoa whoa whoa. Stop. We kinda like not having a CD add-on. You can keep the kid, though. We don't really want it."

Years later, Sony makes the add-on into a standalone game system, and we get a game system that can also play music CDs. Oh, and it somehow remembers a four disk game like Final Fantasy 8. Yeah.

I love how Nintendo is now the one who goofed, and got more competition. Microsoft, though, would have made a console regardless. The original Xbox was meant to be a game system that was like a computer with less options. They scrapped the whole concept and did a 360 turn, though. Really, we should owe video games to the military and some nerdy college kid. They made the real first video games. Military ones were serious, probably, but the college kid's spacecraft dogfight game was a hoot for the college, and better than coffee. Just imagine the frat parties in the computer room in that time...

Sorry if I seem to be trying to be a know it all. Just an older gamer. Been playing since I was 3, so yeah. I feel the need to help educate, as well.

xfighter1138 : The only real difference I've seen in new games from old games is updated graphics. I mean, of course the games have progressed, more weapons, more in-depth story, variety... yeah they've changed. But it's all essentially the same thing. That's what makes it a Genre.

@Cloudsnakeskin: I 100% agree with you.

Challenging is what makes a game popular (not to mention a good story and some good feature), those new gamers think they are - the so called - hardcore gamer just because they play Call Of Duty. (I still like FPS, but C.O.D is not my type)

And I also want to mention a some reasons that made me REALLY HATE new games:

1- In my school, my were taking about a game, I wanted to join them so I steped in and said: ((what game are you guys talking about)), they replied: ((it's Call Of Duty, do you have that game?)), When I said no they all stared at me and said: ((you got to be kidding me, how do you live without it, I've never seen anyone who doesn't have it)), and now they think I'm crazy.

2- Most of the new games' storyline are just CRAP.

Sorry if this hurt people's feelings, but I just couldn't stand it.

Sorry for sounding picky, but it seems to me you're saying challenge makes a game? Perish the thought! A game doesn't have to be hard to be good. Sure, it has to be hard to be hardcore, but a rant against easy games means you aren't focused enough on the fun.
I personally like new games as much as the old ones. Well, depending on the game, but generalizations like this fall flat often.

i find my self vary diverse in what kinda games i play as long as its not to chessey or boring i like old and new games for different reasons for example im 15 and i have played all the Zelda games and prefer the old ones( Pokemon and such also)however i enjoy newer c.o.d games just as much because they are very cool to look at and see where graphics are going for video games,and i mean have you ever played mwf2 with souround sound on a 50in hd TV it is efin awesome ... i guse you can call me more of a neutral gamer because of my well roundedness... i mean i get mad when they mess with my memories by remaking games i played as a little kid (cough, Hg and SS, cough) until i give them a try and i somewhat enjoyed how they did it, for example they made people that dont have friends that enjoy all the same game types still be able to play with others via internet and they often reward old players with references back to the original you are so fond of but for the fps thing i know they all seem very much the same but they are improving the graphics and game play and staying to that kind a genera
however i do miss the kind of person that used to play online war games, allot of the new gamers are either all talk and to cocky with there self proclaimed skills that they do not have, or they have no sportsmanship and hack or cheat there way trough the game(its different when playing alone for fun, but only after you beat it once, lol)but when playing online with other people and you need to cheat to win and then make fun of others for not being able to win when they have inf. ammo and are invincible that just takes all the fun out of playing those games...
but OP just be happy that graphics are only getting better and game play more realistic, who knows so we could be playing c.o.d with virtual reality soon then it wouldn't really matter if its generic it would be fun to play like that...
That was a really long post...

I think you are right in everything you say. A boy I know says that he's the greatest gamer ever because he have won every game he owns to he's PS3. But when we play 2 player-mode, I ALWAYS WINS, and I have never tried the game before.

I come from the older generations of games, starting with the Atari 2600. I was born in 1981 but was lucky enough to have a mother and sister who both enjoyed that system as well as the later NES. Because of their enjoyment of games I was given the chance to own or play nearly every single Nintendo system except the Virtual Boy, even though my Wii is still dead. I've played Sega systems as well as Sony and Microsoft, and agree with the statement that many current 'hardcore' gamers are soft, even though some of those gamers could likely beat me on their style of game. Give me a good classic 2d or isometric RPG and I'll show those children what real hardcore gaming is though. Play 10 hours without a bathroom break, or a save point, then tell me you're hardcore. The biggest reason I don't do well on those C.O.D. FPS and the like is I'm not given a chance to learn the controls, or any of the basics they've had months if not years perfecting, so of coarse I'm going to get popped in the head when I screw up and come out of a crouch behind cover.

New gamers aren't exactly soft just..kinda dull in terms of what they play. I know exactly what you mean though, they just stick to the same FPS games and sports and rave about how great they are. Personally. I play sports outside. I play video games to experience and do things that are impossible to do in real life. It's the same for me, I used to like FPS games but I find that now Im beginning to like them less and less. I do, however, like FPS games like Fallout 3 and Borderlands, because they aren't JUST another FPS game. I believe you can be a hardcore COD player, but that doesn't make you a hardcore gamer, hell, IM not a hardcore gamer, I'm just the type to try different kinds of games.

*Sigh*, do we really need to be having this conversation? I mean, there are always going to be idiots who run around proclaiming that they're the best at every game and going to pwn you. Video games are GAMES, they're supposed to be fun, not a giant superiority war. There are very few games are too hard to beat if you try long enough, and the people that gloat about their skills usually give up soonest.

I agree. I always laugh when I hear people complain about difficulty of games that were released for the NES, SNES, Genesis etc. I always thought that the challenge that those games provide make for a much for fulfilling experience when you finally do beat it.

Yes, many new games are too easy, but don't go on about how playing for ten hours without saving is "hardcore." Could you complete a long game, say a RPG, that has at least sixty hours of play without saving at all? I think they might be lowering the difficulty on current games because younger players are playing more. Younger players just can't do it like us older ones.

i dont know about that, i mean the first console i had was a ps1, after that i actualy bough a sega and some old nintendo consoles.I think the 'idiots' you are talking about are not so much gaming idiots as simply 'idiots'

Most FPS "hardcore gamers" can be arrogant bigots but there are some that are super nice and optimistic. Those are the authentic hardcore gamers because a great gamer learns to improvise if the New Gamer screws up, gets confused, or picks up a useful weapon they have little experience using properly. They be what others look up to for advice rather than continuously bash them for their mistakes. The ones who call names to New Gamers (like Noob for example) will most likely fail a Co-op or team game if they curse and bash the new teammates. Its okay to feel disappointed and maybe say "dang it" or "what the heck" so as long you don't direct it towards another player (but you can think it in your head). It's my opinion though I'm not trying to order people what they can or cannot say, they have to decide for themselves. Even New Gamers can become great if they are taught by great players if you ask me, share advice.

I agree with this thread completely. I don't hate all new games or new gamers, but I recognize a shift in ideology. The game market is also over saturated. I don't like how many gamers are so gullible these days, or how games are so pretentious and stylized. I wish we could go back to when game-makers took risks and explored possibilities. I don't mind the advances in technology, but often I see them applied only for the sakes of a certain marketability. I feel that games have gone the way of movies and music, catering to ignorant masses and taking themselves too seriously. Also, the idea that all graphics need to be first-person and 3D is quickly becoming illogical and boring.

I wouldn't call someone soft because they don't like/know the history of games. I think originaly NES games are some of the toughest available. I played the Megamans and the RPGs without the instant access to FAQs online and those were hard. You got your game manual, maybe a friend had Nintendo Power, and good luck, sucka!

Nowadays, younger gamers have resources and are used to the style and graphics of today's games. It's culture, not softness, that turns them off from playing Atari or Nintendo, even SNES.

It's like saying because you don't like B&W movies from the 1930s, you're a soft movie watcher. You like Michael Bay's explosions and eye candy and there's really no story in Transformers but you enjoyed it. But you're weak because you never saw Citizen Kane, Some Like it Hot, and South Pacific.

I get your argument. I disagree with you. These kids can play for six hours straight, shooting the same enemies over and over. That's pretty hardcore.

You make a good point. I don't think they're soft, just boring.

All depends what you mean by hardcore. To me, hardcore gamer means you stay up till 4:00 AM playing video games and will not stop for anything. I'd put what you're trying to say as "experienced gamer", because while many ppl say they're experienced just cuz they're playing all the time, that is NOT TRUE. You really make a good point, though. Most new gamers probably don't have the word "variety" in their vocabulary.

Well i really dont know ANYTHING about games so i wouldnt say im a new one but lots of kids at my school talk about C.O.D.

I'm no extream gamer and I have had no money passed 8 years. But I used to play the PS1 and then tried the PS2 and found that times had changed. PS1 RPG games were extensive and interesting. I think it was the golden age of RPG game really~ Favorite was Xenogears! When I tried to play on the PS2 the RPG games were short you could play them in one day! Just a year or two before the PS2 RPG's took about over a month to play. Ever since I have not seen any real RPGs on the map maybe except Zelda and Star Ocean 3 (Please don't rip my head off remember I haven't been able to buy games for 8 years).

I can say I do know why they don't make those extra long RPG much anymore not just due to money, but also they are trying to make games that the player has to physicaly interact with. The culture now says playing sit down video games is bad for you and we must now go to having physical interactive games to get the younger generations healthy again.

I've been a gamer since the apple II playing oregon trail i also had a 2600 and a machine called an odyssey. I've also shown my kids the ways of the true gamer giving them all my old systems. Whenever i see these treasures at the pawn shops or someones yard sale i always buy them and remember all the fun i had playing them as a kid. I remember hours of ten yard fight, final fantasy, ninja gaiden, galaga, space invaders, a nearly endless list of classics. Soooo glad i found vizzed so i can play them all again. Thanks Davideo!

The new games are much easier than the old ones. Sure, there are challenges in the new games, like beating The Perfect Run in Super Mario Galaxy 2 and clearing the Cave of Ordeals in Twilight Princess, but neither of those challenges are close to the difficulty of some early games in their first level. Silver Surfer, anyone?

I loathed that game.

@ everyone who denied this opinion.

He's not saying that they are soft just because they're new, or don't appreciate retro games. He's saying they're soft because they don't yet know what hardcore really means, and that they say they are just because they play Black Ops.

I hate new age gamers that play only FPS's and the occasional sports games, it's absolutely awful to only stick to one thing, because it makes you have no talent, and no other experience, I am an All Gen Gamer, and I play every game, and appreciate them, but CoD, and all FPS's are overrated, I own all of them on my Xbox 360, and I seriously think to get the same thing over again is a waste of precious time and money. It's like a Michael Bay movie, no plot, repetitive, full of clichés, and insists upon itself. With my Wii, I play a ton of crappy Sports games, but the only good one is of the Wii Sports series.

New agers are also stupid as hell. They don't even know the name of their favorite games (And insist that Black Ops is not part of Call of Duty, look at the cover, dumbass.), they detest the games that are enjoyable, such as Mario or Zelda, and call them gay, they are too busy calling people noobs and playing online rather to actually play the campaign mode.

They just don't know what a game really is, and the sad thing is, when they see an older series come out with a new game, such as the new Mortal Kombat, they ask "what the f**k is that", and "is it like cod". Because they just don't know. They are too confused by the power of Activision.

Retro gamers have common compassion for games, and love seeing their favorite games, and are amazed by how 1 game can take up the new agers entire lives, when they had a shelf of NES and Genesis games.

I get made fun of at school for liking Mario and pulling out a Gameboy Color at recess, but hell, they'd do the same thing if they knew how graphics don't make a game.

The term hardcore gamer means to love games, to have determination with games, be good at them, and to be able to love a game, no matter how many bits are in use, because they are real gamers, they understand that things weren't always golden and bullets, and they are to be played, that's all a hardcore, real gamer, cares about.

That's all gaming is.

I totally agree with this thread. I doubt half of the "hardcore" gamers in my school have ever even touched, say, a Nintendo 64 before, let alone played any games from before the 6th and 7th generation of systems. I doubt they could even name any genres besides FPS, and Sports. It makes me sad that they call themselves hardcore gamers.

im 18 and ive been playing since i was 3 plus ive beaten lots of the classics like castlevania contra mario metroid ninja gaiden zelda and lots of others thanks to my dad being a hardcore gamer at the time and getting me into games so i wouldnt say im soft but i do agree that alot of other gamers in this generation are soft and care too much about graphics and cant appreciate the more important things like the gameplay and storylines

seems like new age gamers are all about graphics, if it doesn't look good to them then it means the game sucks
make them play Contra on NES without the code and see how much they complain about it haha

Doesn't the word, "Classic" even mean anything anymore? You people are bashing things like Call of Duty or God of War and claiming to be a hardcore gamer because you play games with Mario or Metroid slapped on the side of it. I thought classics were games that revolutionized or made development into a genre, or created new genres. Call of Duty certainly did this, you can tell because most recent FPS' try to duplicate it, and be the next big COD or something like that. Nintendo just copy/pastes story in every one of their games nowadays. Just because a game is hard, or has a centuries old tramp-stamp, doesn't mean it's automatically good.

Sephitard9001 : I didnt really mean it in that way. What i meant was that i have some experience from past games and i agree with you about cod being innovative but games now adays are way too easy and are lacking in some areas

I dislike people who just play C.O.D. all day everyday.
I agree new gamers are soft, I myself like to play old games.

jlmjiggy : Well yeah, but think of it this way: It was uncommon back then to have a difficulty setting, and it seems EVERY game nowadays does, if you wanted an actual challenge, it would be found in the higher difficulties, and I'll be honest, Call of Duty on Veteran (Hardest) is pretty hard. The regular, or medium difficulties are standard difficulties that anyone who picks up the game should be able to beat with minor to moderate resistance. But certain games are just that . . . bad, no more or no less. Every generation has bad games, but there are more developers today than there was before, so the seasoned veteran developers are pumping out great games, while the newer ones are still lagging a little bit behind, that's why you see games like Katamari lol

I've been around since the days of the SNES. I enjoyed many of the games I was able to get back then, and I still play games on the newer consoles today. I wish I could get more, but due to financial hardship I haven't been able to.

Personally, I think that newer gamers who only play certain games don't really know gaming. If you want to be a hardcore gamer, I would say at the very least try every genre (from FPS to platformer to RPG to the just plain weird) at least once, and try games on both old consoles and new and see what games you enjoy and what games you don't.

I myself can't stand FPS games, but enjoy the adventure, RPG, and platforming games. Does that make me soft because I don't like FPS games? No. Does it make me hardcore that I generally stick with those types of games? No.

Basically, what I'm saying is there are people who like certain types of games. True gamers try out games before they give an opinion (not relying on reviews) and not bashing a game based on its graphical capabilities or its genre or its age.

That's my two cents to this topic. Take it how you wish. (And I feel as if I didn't really answer the topic that well... X_X)

Yeah, now most gamers only like shooting games. They call themselves actual gamers but they don't even play anytthing but Halo Grand Theft Auto and Call of Duty. I like Call of Duty but that's not all I play.

I completly agree with you. These kind of people are just sad they complain about every thing about these great games. Myself I am a gient Nintendo fan the only sony consol I played is the play stasion one. my favorite system is the game boy color. The games were classic, challenging, and not something lame you can pick up and play something that requires no real skill. The next genration of gamers are really sad my sister often complains about the n64's grapics and to top it off she played my file on ocarina of time and died aganst a deuk surb but got through the first dungeon on phantom hourglass just to show how easy games are. I mean come stop complining about simple things! The only time I ever complied about a game was when I playing a few idiots in mario party wii because they didn't know how to play, thought that it was not fair that I was winning, and complined that they wanted the charcter I wanted. So I just gave up. These people probly don't even know what Atri is or never heard of The Great Video Game Crash. What Nintendo orginaly was or how the play stasion was made. By the way don't even get me started on sports games! These thing are really really sad I mean anyone with half a brain can win these! I don't even care about grapics for example some of favirote games are pokemon yellow, crystal, and the oracle games! So everyone should stop complaining and just play the good challanging games if they want to be consered a hardcore gamer. I think you got my point by now.